F-16s for Ukraine

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 11 Apr 2023, 04:24

Considering the large number of foreign troops fighting under the Ukrainian Flag. What is stopping former F-16 Pilots and Ground Crews from doing the same? This of course would solve the problem of training all new pilots and ground crews from the Ukrainian Air Force. Of course many would need some type of basic refresher course. Yet, the duration should be pretty short for most of them! Also, the F-16 has seen widespread use over many nations and for decades. So, the "pool" should be pretty large.....

Can anyone say AVG 2.0

Note from admin: AVG stands fro American Volunteer Group, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Tigers

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 11 Apr 2023, 08:07

Found this...

A decorated former US F-16 pilot says he would fly fighter jets for Ukraine: 'You can count on me,' he told a VOA interviewer

Dan Hampton, a retired lieutenant colonel known as the US Air Force's "deadliest F-16 pilot," told Voice of America he was ready to fly planes for Ukraine's military himself if necessary.

The highly decorated pilot, known as "Two Dogs," spent 20 years in the Air Force, fought in the Persian Gulf, Kosovo, and Iraq wars, and is a New York Times best-selling author for his memoirs from his time in the military.

Speaking from a base in Arizona, Hampton discussed his thoughts in the long-form interview on training F-16 pilots to fight in Ukraine, the advantages of using the jets, and whether Ukraine's government should hire private pilots with the war continuing into its second year.

Full story: https://www.businessinsider.com/celebra ... ine-2023-3

ricnunes · by **ricnunes** » 11 Apr 2023, 15:03

That idea actually crossed my mind a couple of times in the (recent) past!

This would IMO attenuate the lack of pilots flying tentative F-16s (or other western fighter aircraft) in Ukraine.

zhangmdev · by **zhangmdev** » 11 Apr 2023, 15:47

Not just pilots, also ground crew, contractors, and the entire infrastructure to support the engines, avionics, weapons etc. This won't happen unless sanctioned by the US gov and MIC.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 12 Apr 2023, 02:45

zhangmdev wrote:Not just pilots, also ground crew, contractors, and the entire infrastructure to support the engines, avionics, weapons etc. This won't happen unless sanctioned by the US gov and MIC.

Yes, the US Government would have to give their approval. That said, the pilots and ground crew wouldn't "have" to be American. As plenty of non-Americans with F-16 experience to draw from...

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 12 Apr 2023, 02:50

Hard to see this as a real problem? Not like it is setting any precedence. As countless foreigners are already fighting for Ukraine including many Americans.

retchief70 · by **retchief70** » 12 Apr 2023, 03:39

A Wagner Group for the good guys. I wish I was younger . . . much younger.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 12 Apr 2023, 04:40

retchief70 wrote:A Wagner Group for the good guys. I wish I was younger . . . much younger.

I doubt they would have a hard time finding volunteers?

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 12 Apr 2023, 04:42

Ukraine Situation Report: Denmark To Decide By Summer On F-16s For Kyiv
Denmark is the latest European NATO member to consider if it might be able to transfer F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine.

By Thomas Newdick - April 11, 2023 6:26 PM

Denmark has said that, together with its allies, it will decide “before the summer” as to whether they will provide Ukraine with the fighter jets the country has long been campaigning for. During a visit today to Ukraine, Troels Lund Poulsen, Denmark’s acting defense minister, confirmed that the matter was under discussion but that the process was taking a long time due to the requirement for different countries to cooperate on any such transfer of aircraft.

Denmark is the latest country to put itself forward as a possible candidate in Ukraine’s long-running search for new Western combat jets. According to figures from Flight Global, the Royal Danish Air Force currently operates around 43 upgraded F-16AM/BM fighter jets — a type that been repeatedly mentioned in relation to Ukraine’s requirements and preferences — which are due to be replaced beginning in the near future by 27 F-35A stealth jets.

Full story:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u ... s-for-kyiv

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 12 Apr 2023, 05:14

Additional information: https://en.defence-ua.com/news/same_old ... -6367.html

zhangmdev · by **zhangmdev** » 12 Apr 2023, 05:28

Corsair1963 wrote:Hard to see this as a real problem? Not like it is setting any precedence. As countless foreigners are already fighting for Ukraine including many Americans.

I wouldn't say they are countless. F-16 is not P-40. One cannot tinker its engine just in someone's garage. AVG wasn't in the fight until after Pearl Harbor. The US military in Astan could not function without civilian contractors. Don't think people nowadays are idealistic enough to volunteer to fight in faraway places in significant numbers. The experience in the Spanish Civial War, and in this war, wasn't so idealistic.

Unsanctioned civilians going into war zones has complications. A few individuals went to Syria fighting IS got into legal troubles back in their home countries.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 13 Apr 2023, 08:58

zhangmdev wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Hard to see this as a real problem? Not like it is setting any precedence. As countless foreigners are already fighting for Ukraine including many Americans.

I wouldn't say they are countless. F-16 is not P-40. One cannot tinker its engine just in someone's garage. AVG wasn't in the fight until after Pearl Harbor. The US military in Astan could not function without civilian contractors. Don't think people nowadays are idealistic enough to volunteer to fight in faraway places in significant numbers. The experience in the Spanish Civial War, and in this war, wasn't so idealistic.

Unsanctioned civilians going into war zones has complications. A few individuals went to Syria fighting IS got into legal troubles back in their home countries.

Likely over 20,000 foreign soldiers fighting on the behalf of Ukraine and yes few things are simple........

zhangmdev · by **zhangmdev** » 13 Apr 2023, 09:21

The number of the foreign legion members is likely far less than the stated 20,000. They are mostly spread around the UKR units. The units formed by foreign volunteers, like Belarusians, are of battalion size at most. They are very few and far between.

The organization of the foreign legion had serious problems. A lot of members joined early already left.

And Z propaganda has a tendency to inflate the number of foreign volunteers.

zero-one · by **zero-one** » 24 Apr 2023, 17:22

Where would they get the actual airframes? I suggested long ago that NATO governments can support a private military contractor like Top Aces Inc. which is already in the process of acquiring F-16A's, under the guise of anonymous billionaire investors and sell them some F-16 block 30s. Then have Ukraine backed by american $$ hire Top Aces as additional air assets

But this may look more like a desperate attempt to put fighter jets in Ukrainian soil for the sake of having dogfights with Russian fighters than an actual attempt to defend Ukraine. Giving them ample A2/AD assets for now like MIM-104 while training a robust pool of professional pilots and ground crews to eventually use F-16s in the future seems like a more mature approach to the situation.

Fox1 · by **Fox1** » 04 May 2023, 03:56

The kind of people who would volunteer to go fight against Russia on Ukraine's behalf are also the kind of people who aren't going to sit around twiddling their thumbs and worrying about potential "complications".