McAir/General Dynamics A-12 Avenger II (Flying Dorito)

Experimental aircraft including -but not limited to- X-planes, from the Bell X-1 to the Su-47
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

anoldgrandma

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: 05 Dec 2004, 19:09

Unread post05 Dec 2004, 19:14

Does anyone have any information on the A-12? I know it's a delta shaped flying wing, stealth attack aircraft for the Navy, and that is was canceled. please don't recommend looking on FAS.org, globalsecurity, or globalaircraft. I already looked at those.

If anyone knows it's speed, weapons payload, and things like that I would appreciate it.
Offline
User avatar

Gums

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2403
  • Joined: 16 Dec 2003, 17:26

Unread post05 Dec 2004, 21:47

Salute!

We went thru this on <a href="http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-209.html">another thread</a> a year ago.

I was the dude that worked up the cockpit displays and weapon control algorithms for the Northrop-Grumman entry. Navy chose GD-McD entry.

Requirements were for a plane to replace the A-6 for interdiction and SEAD. Hornets would still be around as all-purpose jets.

Two-seater, plenty of range, and bays for the ordnance. There was also a requirement for AMRAAM and 'winders, so I had to allow for the internal carraige on those guys. No cannon. So look up the Intruder data and there you are, except the bad guys wouldn't be able to see the A-12 on radar until it was too late.

I never got to see the prototype and was really pissed.

One biggie is that stealth and carrier ops are hard to match up. This is especially true if you want the range that was required. The big delta of the finalist seemed to have good range capabilities, but we'll never know.

later,
Gums
Viper pilot '79
"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
Offline

Roscoe

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1334
  • Joined: 29 Jun 2004, 20:14
  • Location: Las Vegas

Unread post06 Dec 2004, 03:22

There was a full scale mockup of the LM McD version in a hanger in Fort Worth. Made basically of Plywood, it was apparently for studying external lighting. It appeared to have a clear canopy, so maybe part of the study was to see if the lights would bother the pilot. Anyway, sometime in about 96 or 97 I was taken in there with no warning and was quite shocked...it is so real looking I thought it was the real thing at first. Given the flying wing ("dorito") planform, it had no fuselage, so the wing appeared to be awfully thick to this observer.

Still, pretty cool. :)
Roscoe
F-16 Program Manager
USAF Test Pilot School 92A

"It's time to get medieval, I'm goin' in for guns" - Dos Gringos
Offline

habu2

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2810
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2003, 20:36

Unread post06 Dec 2004, 16:42

See my A-12 webpage

Roscoe, the A-12 FSM will eventually be displayed next to the B-36 outside Carswell's main gate - if they ever get the building built.

Image
Reality Is For People Who Can't Handle Simulation
Offline

TC

F-16.net Moderator

F-16.net Moderator

  • Posts: 3998
  • Joined: 14 Jan 2004, 07:06

Unread post07 Dec 2004, 07:30

I never did learn why they used the same aircraft designation as the original model of Lockheed's Blackbird family. Also, what was the No BS reason for the cancellation? The then-forthcoming Super Hornet and JSF, perhaps?

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!
Offline

habu2

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2810
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2003, 20:36

Unread post07 Dec 2004, 17:11

The 'original' A-12 never served in any branch of the US Armed Services, is was a CIA "asset", and was certainly not an "attack" jet as the A-xx series implies. As such, the A-12 designation for the Avenger II was not technically re-used.
Reality Is For People Who Can't Handle Simulation
Offline

habu2

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2810
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2003, 20:36

Unread post07 Dec 2004, 17:13

The real no-BS reason for the cancellation depends on which side you ask, of course. The aircraft was over-weight and over-budget and behind schedule - now whether that was due to contractor mismanagement or the Navy changing the requirements, well, that's what the lawsuits were about.
Reality Is For People Who Can't Handle Simulation
Offline
User avatar

lamoey

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1103
  • Joined: 25 Apr 2004, 17:44
  • Location: 77550

Unread post09 Dec 2004, 02:48

Loched internally called the evolutionary versions of the SR-71, A-1 to A-12, where some of the A-12 became the SR-71 and YF-12A (USAF). There were 18 A-12's made. Of these 4 where converted to SR-71 or YF-12A, 8 where in storrage at Palmdale and the last six are unaccounted for...
Former Flight Control Technican - We keep'em flying
Offline

TC

F-16.net Moderator

F-16.net Moderator

  • Posts: 3998
  • Joined: 14 Jan 2004, 07:06

Unread post09 Dec 2004, 05:42

habu.org admits to 13 A-12s being built. I have seen the A-12 at the Battleship Alabama Park in Mobile, AL. I believe it was one of the ones that was stored at Palmdale for several years. Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't... :shock: Cue the Rod Serling narration...

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!
Offline

habu2

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2810
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2003, 20:36

Unread post09 Dec 2004, 18:27

Skunkworks folklore:

The original Blackbird development program was internally referred to (by Lockheed) as Archangel, and the design iterations had "A" prefixes - A-1, A-2.... with the 'final' accepted design A-12.

The CIA also referred to the jet as an "Article", whether that was also known as Article 12 (A-12) is subject to some speculation.
Reality Is For People Who Can't Handle Simulation
Offline

cbale2000

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 48
  • Joined: 09 Dec 2004, 15:30
  • Location: Michagan

Unread post09 Dec 2004, 21:48

Here is what I found on the A-12:

Material: Titanium
Wingspan: 16.9 meters (55 feet 7 inches)
Height: 5.6 meters (18 feet 6 inches)
Length: 31.2 meters (102 feet 3 inches)
Speed: Mach 2.0, twice the speed of sound
Altitude: 18,000 meters (60,000 feet)
Takeoff distance, maximum weight:
Takeoff weight: 53,000 kg (117,000 pounds)
Landing weight: 23,600 kg (52,000 pounds)
Engines: 2 Pratt and Whitney J-75s, each rated at 17,000 pounds of thrust
First flight: January 1963
Number of flights: 614
Hours of flight: 1,076 hours flying time


Now Im not shure if this is the plane you are talking about but this is all that I found.
Attachments
a12.jpg
This might be what you are talking about.
Offline
User avatar

Gums

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2403
  • Joined: 16 Dec 2003, 17:26

Unread post09 Dec 2004, 22:29

Hey you guys!

How come none of you have mentioned the Roadrunner site?

http://www.roadrunnersinternationale.com/

Dorky opening page, as webmaster is fascinated by fancy stuff. Not a biggie if broadband, but I am not.

And for lurkers from other threads........... Constant Peg was more than has been mentioned. Least the name can be mentioned. There were some that could not /can not.

out,
Gums
Viper pilot '79
"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
Offline

kmceject

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 345
  • Joined: 01 Oct 2003, 03:48

Unread post09 Dec 2004, 23:22

cbale2000, The info you posted on the A-12 only refers to Article 121, the prototype. All other A-12s were equipped with J-58s (eventually) and were redlined at Mach 3.5.

Kevin
The Ejection Site
Offline

habu2

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2810
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2003, 20:36

Unread post07 Aug 2007, 04:00

Some of you may have seen my webpage on the A-12 "Flying Dorito". Well, I thought I'd update you on the status of the Full Scale Mockup.

This is an aerial view of (most of) NAS JRB "Carswell" in Ft Worth, home of the F-16
Attachments
a12fsm4.jpg
Reality Is For People Who Can't Handle Simulation
Offline

habu2

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2810
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2003, 20:36

Unread post07 Aug 2007, 04:06

sorry for the multiple posts, but I can't figure out how to add captions between attachments...

This is a closer look at the approach end of 17 at the north end of the field
Attachments
a12fsm3.jpg
Reality Is For People Who Can't Handle Simulation
Next

Return to X-planes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests