F-15C vs. Mig-23/25 book

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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nastle

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Unread post09 May 2020, 19:32

mixelflick wrote:
nastle wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Just got done reading Tom Cooper's excellent book here - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/14728 ... UTF8&psc=1

Iraq claims to have lost only 2 Mig-25's in the Iran - Iraq war, one to an F-5E's sidewinders and the other to an Iranian Phantom, which used an AIM-7E. ...

can you give a source for the f4 killing a mig-25?

I read coopers book on iranian f-4s and they list no mig-25 lost to F-4s

thank a lot


I'll have to go back and look, it's been awhile.

It's mentioned here at the top of the page, so he too saw something about a (recon) Foxbat being brought down by an F-4..
https://www.key.aero/forum/modern-milit ... n-iraq-war

I'm certain I read about it (somewhere), as I was under the impression no F-4 could catch a Mig-25. So I read it, re-read it and couldn't believe it, LOL. Then again, pilots make mistakes.. or their aircraft fail them. Stuff happens, as they say.

I'll keep looking..

quite possible if it was a RB version
but again seems like its an iranian claim

I mean mig-23MS shot down a F5E I was surprised at that and F-104 was brought down by a Mystair so in wars things happen
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madrat

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Unread post09 May 2020, 23:43

nastle wrote:
madrat wrote:
edpop wrote:
I got my copy of the Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/34/35 Famous Russian Aircraft book today in the mail from Amazon ($29.63 with tax and S/H). It said it is used but it looks brand new to me. Like you said it is a monstrosity but very cool. Everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask about the Sukhoi family. Should be a good read for the rest of the winter.


You inspired me to order a copy. I found mine $32.64 after tax and shipping, but I'm happy! What a steal.

scrbid has online copies of many such books
i got mine yrs back but resold it


I keep a half dozen bookshelves full. Much of my stuff I've had for 30+ years. Detailed studies of Soviet doctrine, especially air campaigns. One day I'll read all of them, but only made it about 25% through. We really painted the threats back then. Some of my books date back to the 50's so it's great reading. If only younger generations could embrace the scientific methods of those times.
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milosh

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Unread post10 May 2020, 10:41

mixelflick wrote:One (unbelievable) anecdote from that SU-27/Flanker book: They took the canopy off one of their test birds, and flew it at Mach 2! This was no joke, or at least was presented as a legit claim. I dunno about it hitting mach 2, but there were pictures of it.

Crazy!!!


Hm I know for this, it was for movie:
https://englishrussia.com/2009/07/24/ru ... r-cabrios/
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mixelflick

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Unread post10 May 2020, 14:32

milosh wrote:
mixelflick wrote:One (unbelievable) anecdote from that SU-27/Flanker book: They took the canopy off one of their test birds, and flew it at Mach 2! This was no joke, or at least was presented as a legit claim. I dunno about it hitting mach 2, but there were pictures of it.

Crazy!!!


Hm I know for this, it was for movie:
https://englishrussia.com/2009/07/24/ru ... r-cabrios/


That's crazy!

So I guess its true. To me, this is like their ultra-low level stunts - irresponsible airmanship. Aviation is already a dangerous business, why do these guys want to make it moreso? Prove to everyone how badass you are?? You're already a fighter pilot, flying one of the most advanced/fastest aircraft in world!

I dunno. I guess things are done differently over there. Just hope nobody pays the ultimate price for these crazy stunts..
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madrat

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Unread post10 May 2020, 17:07

My guess is the pilot was well lubed going up knowing the task. Vodka is the fuel of champions and daredevils. Youtube proves this to be true.
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mixelflick

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Unread post14 May 2020, 16:30

Found it! Page 35 in Tom Coopers book F-15C vs. Mig-23/25..

Mention of the Iraqi's admitting to losing two Mig-25PDS Foxbats: One in July 1986 to an F-5E, and the other in March of 1988 to an F-4E, using an AIM-7E.

If memory serves, the F-5E was a gun kill after both Sidewinders failed to launch. Apparently the Iranian F-5 pilot caught the Foxbat unaware at low altitude. The F-4E kill is admittedly more of a mystery. Would love the details behind that one...
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nastle

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Unread post01 Jun 2020, 15:14

mixelflick wrote:Found it! Page 35 in Tom Coopers book F-15C vs. Mig-23/25..

Mention of the Iraqi's admitting to losing two Mig-25PDS Foxbats: One in July 1986 to an F-5E, and the other in March of 1988 to an F-4E, using an AIM-7E.

If memory serves, the F-5E was a gun kill after both Sidewinders failed to launch. Apparently the Iranian F-5 pilot caught the Foxbat unaware at low altitude. The F-4E kill is admittedly more of a mystery. Would love the details behind that one...


yes i did see it , book claims the mig-25 had 19 claims of kills and 5 verified

intrestingly the acig forum [hosted by Cooper ] which lists all A2A kills mentions PDS lost to F-14 but none to F4E

and the F-4 iranian units books also by Cooper lists no mig-25 lost to F-4E?
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nastle

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Unread post01 Jun 2020, 22:32

appendix of the above book notes the known kills by iranian F-4s

IRANIAN F-4 PHANTOM II UNITS IN COMBAT FARZAD BISHOP AND TOM COOPER
4 x mig-21 + 3 x su-22 + 2 x mig-23BN = 9-23 sept 1980
6 x mig-21 + 2 x su-20 + 3 x mig-23BN + 1 Hunter = 23-25 sept 1980
6 x mig-21 + 3 x su-20 + 1 x mig-23ms + 1 mig-23bn = 25 sept -17 oct 1980
5 x mig-21 + 2 x su-20 + 1 Mi-25 [helo /hind?] + 3 x mig23 [unknown variants]+ 1 mig-23ms = 23 oct 1980- 17 april 1981
7 x mig-21 + 2 x mig-23ms + 1 x su-20 = 15 may 1981-nov 1982
2 x mig23 [unknown variants] + 1 x mig-23BK ?+ 1 x mig-23ms + 1 mi-25[helo] + 1 x superetendard + 4 x su-22 + 1 x mig-21 = nov 1982-april 1985
1 x mig-23mf + 1 x mig-23 [unknown variant] + 1 mig-23ms + 1 x mig-23BN + 1x mirage5 + 2 x mirage F1 + 1x tu-22+ 5 x su-22 = 10 feb 1986-july 1988
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mixelflick

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Unread post02 Jun 2020, 14:06

Wow!

Even without the Mig-25 kill, it seems the F-4 gave a really good accounting of itself. The Mig-21 was no slouch, and the Mig-23 added the dimension of BVR to contend with. I know it's the pilot though, when these aircraft are so evenly matched.

I wonder if Tom can account for the status of a Mig-25 kill by an F-4. Did it really happen as mentioned in his book, or was it subsequently found to be not the case? Or some other possibility?

If it did occur, I'm sure that F-4 pilot was the toast of his air force, LOL.
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nastle

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Unread post02 Jun 2020, 14:25

mixelflick wrote:Wow!

Even without the Mig-25 kill, it seems the F-4 gave a really good accounting of itself. The Mig-21 was no slouch, and the Mig-23 added the dimension of BVR to contend with. I know it's the pilot though, when these aircraft are so evenly matched.

I wonder if Tom can account for the status of a Mig-25 kill by an F-4. Did it really happen as mentioned in his book, or was it subsequently found to be not the case? Or some other possibility?

If it did occur, I'm sure that F-4 pilot was the toast of his air force, LOL.

F-4 was an amazing airplane overshadowed by 4th gen fighters so quickly but must have been a nightmare for WP , my main regret is that luftwaffe got a toothless and castrated F-4 w/o AIM-7s !
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