MiG-23ML Analysis

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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basher54321

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Unread post03 May 2020, 14:01

nastle wrote:during this era i.e 1970-1990 can a mechanized army of a 2nd tier power [like india/pak, iran/iraq, south korea, turkey egypt libya etc ]survive against the airpower of a similar opponent[not talking about israelis, USAF?USN, frontline NATO etc] ? That is in the total absence of friendly airpower

Can the mechanized forces use optical AA, MANPADs , mobile SAM batteries to successfully defend against such an opponent and move mostly at night ? as most 2nd tier airforces in that era had poor night attack capability





Impossible to say given the scope this would entail. Would depend entirely on the type of training, support and equipment in use. A ground force can use night, terrain, weather and air defence in certain situations and poor use of airpower could aid the ground force combined with limited means to find them in this period.

When two ground forces are engaged then the side with airpower also has troops on the ground able to provide locations of the enemy force even with just radio. A concript army might even be stuck in trenches anyway.
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milosh

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Unread post04 May 2020, 18:59

Interesting stuff which could help to get more info about topic we started (east vs west) based on Soviet estimates from 1977, MiG-25P and S-200 are missing which probable show how secretive those were in that time. Now Firefox novel have lot more sense it is from 1977 and we see Soviets don't have MiG-25P in their tables :mrgreen:
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nastle

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Unread post05 May 2020, 12:12

so combat potential of mig-23m is 4.0 and that of F-4E is 4.1 what does that mean ?
and JA-37 is only 3.8?
I always thought 3 x mig-23 = 1 x F-4E/JA-37
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ovod

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Unread post05 May 2020, 13:46

nastle wrote:
basher54321 wrote:
nastle wrote:

SAM Umbrella - the only one I know of that denied an air force almost completely was Egypt V Israel (1973). The IDF eventually got round that by rolling tanks over it.

during this era i.e 1970-1990 can a mechanized army of a 2nd tier power [like india/pak, iran/iraq, south korea, turkey egypt libya etc ]survive against the airpower of a similar opponent[not talking about israelis, USAF?USN, frontline NATO etc] ? That is in the total absence of friendly airpower

Can the mechanized forces use optical AA, MANPADs , mobile SAM batteries to successfully defend against such an opponent and move mostly at night ? as most 2nd tier airforces in that era had poor night attack capability


There were many examples in that time frame when air power was used against heavy ground based air defence (AAA and missiles). It all depends on how much air power you are willing to lose and can afford to lose. If you have a lot of stand-off weapons available for your aircraft such as Paveway and Maverick you may not lose a lot of aircraft at all.
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nastle

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Unread post05 May 2020, 16:25

basher54321 wrote:
nastle wrote:during this era i.e 1970-1990 can a mechanized army of a 2nd tier power [like india/pak, iran/iraq, south korea, turkey egypt libya etc ]survive against the airpower of a similar opponent[not talking about israelis, USAF?USN, frontline NATO etc] ? That is in the total absence of friendly airpower

Can the mechanized forces use optical AA, MANPADs , mobile SAM batteries to successfully defend against such an opponent and move mostly at night ? as most 2nd tier airforces in that era had poor night attack capability





Impossible to say given the scope this would entail. Would depend entirely on the type of training, support and equipment in use. A ground force can use night, terrain, weather and air defence in certain situations and poor use of airpower could aid the ground force combined with limited means to find them in this period.

When two ground forces are engaged then the side with airpower also has troops on the ground able to provide locations of the enemy force even with just radio. A concript army might even be stuck in trenches anyway.


NIGHT
TERRAIN
WEATHER
AIR DEFENCE
I would add concealment too in addition to terrain as sometimes it may help, e.g if the terrain is plains and open bush /woodlands cover might not be easily available
Do you know of any concealment strategies that armies might employ in such a situation ?
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madrat

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Unread post05 May 2020, 17:18

There is an FM for every situation. You can look at old versions cleared for release.
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