Mirage F.1EQ Service with Iraqi AF episode 5

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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oldiaf

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Unread post26 Aug 2015, 18:41

The destruction of Seawise Giant vessel May 14 1988
Following the destruction of Iranian oil export platforms on Kharj Island on Sep 18 1987, the Iranian government decided to shift the main oil export terminal south to Lavan Island 380 nm from closest Iraqi base but this also was hit and they desided to move it further south to Sirri Island 460 nm this time but again this was hit by 4 Mirages on Oct 5 1987 .... At the same time the Iranian government resumed export from Kharj island but the Iraqi AF this time destroyed the platforms completely on Feb 7 1988 .... So the Iranian government decided to take a radical solution .... To export oil from floating vessel 650 nm from Nearest Iraqi base near the Island of Larak ... This vessel was the Seawise Giant with a capacity of 565,000 metric ton of Oil ( the largest in the world).

Reconnaissance
Iraqi AF sent a single MiG-25R flying at high altitude without the need for air refueling .... The MiG-25R surveyed the ship ... The activity of commericial ships .... The defenses .... And the Iraqi AF desided to launch an extra ordinary strike ...

Task Force
3 Mirage F.EQ with 2 EFT each of 1200 liters plus 2 2000 lb bombs
Support
9 Mirages for refueling : 3 for Refueling the strike package at the fianl approach and 6 to refuel the the strike package and the 3 tankers midway..
The Mirages flow at low altitude and when reaching the target they pulled up and engaged ... Their was heavy commercial activity and 5 ships were hit ... The Seawise Giant took 2 bombs and sunk while other 4 ships also sunk , these were :
1- 235,000 ton Spanish Tanker Barcelona
2- 231,000 ton Iranian tanker Khark
3- 154,000 ton Cypriot tanker Argosy
4- 458,000 British tanker Burmah Endeavor
The air defenses startted firing but it was to late and the Mirages returned and refeuled again on their way back

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/15/world ... -gulf.html
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tomcooper

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Unread post26 Aug 2015, 20:19

oldiaf wrote:The destruction of Seawise Giant vessel May 14 1988
Following the destruction of Iranian oil export platforms on Kharj Island on Sep 18 1987, the Iranian government decided to shift the main oil export terminal south to Lavan Island 380 nm from closest Iraqi base but this also was hit and they desided to move it further south to Sirri Island 460 nm this time but again this was hit by 4 Mirages on Oct 5 1987 .... At the same time the Iranian government resumed export from Kharj island but the Iraqi AF this time destroyed the platforms completely on Feb 7 1988 .... So the Iranian government decided to take a radical solution .... To export oil from floating vessel 650 nm from Nearest Iraqi base near the Island of Larak ... This vessel was the Seawise Giant with a capacity of 565,000 metric ton of Oil ( the largest in the world).

Correction: oil terminals at Khark were never 'destroyed'. Never. Not due to Su-22-attacks (1980-1984), not due to Mirage-attacks (1985-1987), not due to MiG-25RB-attacks (1985-1988).

'Temporarily shut down', yes. From time to time, and never for longer than two weeks.

What changed over the time was the principle how Iranians exported their oil (i.e. crude): instead of loading crude directly to customer's ships at one of jettys off Khark, Iranians moved loading points for international shipping ever further down the Persian Gulf. Means: the NIOC (National Iranian Oil Company) chartered about a dozen of ultra large crude carriers ('ULCCs', such like Seawise Giant), these were loading the crude at Khark, then would transship that crude to loading points off Sirry, or Lavan, or Hormuz etc., and there the crude would be re-loaded to customer's ships.

Movement of all the tankers involved in this 'tanker shuttle' was extremely well-organized. There were always moving in convoys (so-called 'caravans') protected by Iranian Navy warships, IRIAF F-14s and F-4s, and shuttle tankers were not only 'armed' (with flaks, radar reflectors and decoys for Exocet and Silkworm missiles), but also crewed by crews well-versed in damage control, firefighting etc.

Note: because there was a large surplus on the international market, tankers were extremely cheap to charter at that time. So, even a loss of several of them meant next to nothing: damage was - except in case of casualties between experienced crews - easily covered by insurance. This meant that many of ships that could otherwise have been salvaged and repaired were rather 'written off', because it was cheaper to get a new ship instead repair a damaged one. That said, even the damage to environment (caused by polution from oil-spills) remained very limited: nearly all of crude from ships was recovered (in part because Exocets showed an interesting tendence to fail to detonate after impacting the hull and then literally 'swimming' in crude).

Unsurprisingly, although 'flashy', majority of Iraqi attacks were incredibly ineffective (not only because of all the losses the IrAF suffered but foremost others because Iraqis never flew post-strike recce, and no strikes were repeated to increase damage etc.). Indeed, in eight years of war Iranians lost less than 2% of crude that was loaded at Khark.
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Unread post27 Aug 2015, 00:30

tomcooper wrote:
oldiaf wrote:The destruction of Seawise Giant vessel May 14 1988
Following the destruction of Iranian oil export platforms on Kharj Island on Sep 18 1987, the Iranian government decided to shift the main oil export terminal south to Lavan Island 380 nm from closest Iraqi base but this also was hit and they desided to move it further south to Sirri Island 460 nm this time but again this was hit by 4 Mirages on Oct 5 1987 .... At the same time the Iranian government resumed export from Kharj island but the Iraqi AF this time destroyed the platforms completely on Feb 7 1988 .... So the Iranian government decided to take a radical solution .... To export oil from floating vessel 650 nm from Nearest Iraqi base near the Island of Larak ... This vessel was the Seawise Giant with a capacity of 565,000 metric ton of Oil ( the largest in the world).

Correction: oil terminals at Khark were never 'destroyed'. Never. Not due to Su-22-attacks (1980-1984), not due to Mirage-attacks (1985-1987), not due to MiG-25RB-attacks (1985-1988).

'Temporarily shut down', yes. From time to time, and never for longer than two weeks.

What changed over the time was the principle how Iranians exported their oil (i.e. crude): instead of loading crude directly to customer's ships at one of jettys off Khark, Iranians moved loading points for international shipping ever further down the Persian Gulf. Means: the NIOC (National Iranian Oil Company) chartered about a dozen of ultra large crude carriers ('ULCCs', such like Seawise Giant), these were loading the crude at Khark, then would transship that crude to loading points off Sirry, or Lavan, or Hormuz etc., and there the crude would be re-loaded to customer's ships.

Movement of all the tankers involved in this 'tanker shuttle' was extremely well-organized. There were always moving in convoys (so-called 'caravans') protected by Iranian Navy warships, IRIAF F-14s and F-4s, and shuttle tankers were not only 'armed' (with flaks, radar reflectors and decoys for Exocet and Silkworm missiles), but also crewed by crews well-versed in damage control, firefighting etc.

Note: because there was a large surplus on the international market, tankers were extremely cheap to charter at that time. So, even a loss of several of them meant next to nothing: damage was - except in case of casualties between experienced crews - easily covered by insurance. This meant that many of ships that could otherwise have been salvaged and repaired were rather 'written off', because it was cheaper to get a new ship instead repair a damaged one. That said, even the damage to environment (caused by polution from oil-spills) remained very limited: nearly all of crude from ships was recovered (in part because Exocets showed an interesting tendence to fail to detonate after impacting the hull and then literally 'swimming' in crude).

Unsurprisingly, although 'flashy', majority of Iraqi attacks were incredibly ineffective (not only because of all the losses the IrAF suffered but foremost others because Iraqis never flew post-strike recce, and no strikes were repeated to increase damage etc.). Indeed, in eight years of war Iranians lost less than 2% of crude that was loaded at Khark.


Iraqi strike photo taken by MIG-25R
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Photo below by Iranian press.
Google translate It says: strike oil port at Khark damage about 90 percent of crude oil exports from the Iranian island out.
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Link: http://www.bultannews.com/fa/news/101271/%DA%AF%D8%B2%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%B4-%D8%AA%D8%B5%D9%88%DB%8C%D8%B1%DB%8C-%D8%AD%D9%85%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A8%D9%87-%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%B3%DB%8C%D8%B3%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%86%D9%81%D8%AA%DB%8C-%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D9%87%D8%B4%D8%AA-%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%AF%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B9-%D9%85%D9%82%D8%AF%D8%B3
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Unread post27 Aug 2015, 14:50

Yup, and what you - exactly like majority of Iraqi fighter-bomber pilots, plus their superiors that were planning these missions - do not understand is: hitting all the piping and jetties etc. was all for nothing.

Piping is extremely easy to replace (as shown by Iranians). In worst case (say: complete destruction of multiple pipelines), it would take a week at most to replace piping and facilities were back in operation.

Now, if you would indeed be a former Iraqi Mirage pilot - especially a former Mirage F.1EQ-4-pilot - you would know what was the reason and what part of the installation in question was crucial, i.e. had to be hit to cause lasting damage (this happened only 2-3 times during the war, but even then Khark was back in action within 14 days). You would know that because you would know who has found that solution, when, where and why.

But, you're none. And thus: you don't know.

All you can do is offer few recce photos taken by MiG-25RBs, expecting these would show something you're daydreaming about. Nice, but unimpressive: I've got a CD full of these about 10 years ago.
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!
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Unread post27 Aug 2015, 15:47

tomcooper wrote:Yup, and what you - exactly like majority of Iraqi fighter-bomber pilots, plus their superiors that were planning these missions - do not understand is: hitting all the piping and jetties etc. was all for nothing.

Piping is extremely easy to replace (as shown by Iranians). In worst case (say: complete destruction of multiple pipelines), it would take a week at most to replace piping and facilities were back in operation.

Now, if you would indeed be a former Iraqi Mirage pilot - especially a former Mirage F.1EQ-4-pilot - you would know what was the reason and what part of the installation in question was crucial, i.e. had to be hit to cause lasting damage (this happened only 2-3 times during the war, but even then Khark was back in action within 14 days). You would know that because you would know who has found that solution, when, where and why.

But, you're none. And thus: you don't know.

All you can do is offer few recce photos taken by MiG-25RBs, expecting these would show something you're daydreaming about. Nice, but unimpressive: I've got a CD full of these about 10 years ago.

Do you mean the refineries ??
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Unread post27 Aug 2015, 15:49

tomcooper wrote:Yup, and what you - exactly like majority of Iraqi fighter-bomber pilots, plus their superiors that were planning these missions - do not understand is: hitting all the piping and jetties etc. was all for nothing.

But you said at the beginning this never got hit and now you said I've got a CD full of these about 10 years ago!!

tomcooper wrote:Piping is extremely easy to replace (as shown by Iranians). In worst case (say: complete destruction of multiple pipelines), it would take a week at most to replace piping and facilities were back in operation.

I don't think it's extremely easy to replace otherwise why the Iranian shift their main oil exportation to the south (Lavan and Sirri Island and later to Larak!) and they have F-14s near Kharj Island, this mean all attempts did not work to stop Iraqi Air strikes.

tomcooper wrote: I've got a CD full of these about 10 years ago.

May i know where did you got it from because I am the only one who has this archive..
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Unread post28 Aug 2015, 05:55

oldiaf wrote:Do you mean the refineries ??
Nope. What I meant was a specific piece of equipment related to loading points.
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Unread post28 Aug 2015, 05:57

old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
tomcooper wrote:Yup, and what you - exactly like majority of Iraqi fighter-bomber pilots, plus their superiors that were planning these missions - do not understand is: hitting all the piping and jetties etc. was all for nothing.

But you said at the beginning this never got hit...
You're twisting and turning, trying to avoid an unpleasant answer.

Go back to my post and tell me where did I say anything like 'never got hit'?

I wrote 'never destroyed'.

I don't think it's extremely easy to replace otherwise why the Iranian shift their main oil exportation to the south (Lavan and Sirri Island and later to Larak!) and they have F-14s near Kharj Island, this mean all attempts did not work to stop Iraqi Air strikes.
Explained above. Re-read.

May i know where did you got it from because I am the only one who has this archive..
...but sure: you're 'the only one'... :D
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!

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