Kablammo! and recent events...

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steve2267

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Unread post05 Jan 2020, 22:12

charlielima223 wrote:I hope the US Israel and Iran doesnt go to full scale balls to the wall war.

However IF such an event were to happen, no doubt US and Israeli F-35s will be used. What I wonder are the differences in capabilities (if any) between US F-35s and their Israeli kin. From my understanding, F-35Is have their own home grown software and hardware, most likely driven by Israel's own unique requirements. Could it be that F-35Is have a more "beefy" ISR or EW capabilities compared to other F-35s?


My money would be on enhanced, custom comms to F-15I's and F-16I's and possibly home-grown target identification software (AI based?). Second would be integration of Israeli home-grown weapons (bombs, missiles etc). That's all pretty much software stuff, with some integration / release type flight testing.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post05 Jan 2020, 22:38

charlielima223 wrote:I hope the US Israel and Iran doesnt go to full scale balls to the wall war.

However IF such an event were to happen, no doubt US and Israeli F-35s will be used. What I wonder are the differences in capabilities (if any) between US F-35s and their Israeli kin. From my understanding, F-35Is have their own home grown software and hardware, most likely driven by Israel's own unique requirements. Could it be that F-35Is have a more "beefy" ISR or EW capabilities compared to other F-35s?

Where have you been? The 'Israel Pays for Additional F-35s' thread makes it clear that Israeli ADIRs F-35i WILL HAVE special 'home grown software & hardware' but WHEN. This year a special test ADIR will TEST all this add-on stuff but WHEN will it be AVAILABLE? Dunno. Subsequent ADIRs WILL HAVE modifications to allow easier Israeli Add-ons BUT....

Some links with plenty of others including recently the story about the specially modified TEST ADIR coming in 2020:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=29374&p=358060&hilit=black#p358060
&
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=29374&p=374996&hilit=black#p374996
Last edited by spazsinbad on 05 Jan 2020, 22:40, edited 1 time in total.
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marsavian

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Unread post05 Jan 2020, 22:40

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steve2267

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Unread post05 Jan 2020, 22:48

Someone put together a Google Maps web page of the same.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?ie ... 168555&z=9

Fordow is the facility "burrowed into a mountain." Natanz apparently is just buried, but reportedly under a lot of reinforced concrete. Obviously Iran is aware from the Iraq conflicts how deeply US munitions penetrate. Whether they are protected against the GBU-28, I don't know, but Israel bought 100 of those. I doubt Fordow or Natanz are proof against the MOP.
Last edited by steve2267 on 05 Jan 2020, 22:52, edited 1 time in total.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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vilters

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Unread post05 Jan 2020, 22:51

Remember :

Let us be cristal clear about this fact.

When you are cleared to atack a nuclear site?
The return flight is by definition "optional".
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marsavian

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Unread post06 Jan 2020, 00:17

Pompeo defends Soleimani strike as critics question intel, timing

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-tal ... tel-timing

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Sunday the Trump administration's "maximum pressure" strategy on Iran is working and vowed that the U.S. would behave lawfully while targeting the country's “actual decision-makers” rather than Tehran's proxy forces.

Addressing Trump’s threat specifically to attack sites “important to Iran & the Iranian culture,” which could be a war crime under the Geneva Convention, Pompeo responded “We’ll act lawfully. We’ll behave inside the system. We always have, and we always will.”
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lamoey

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Unread post06 Jan 2020, 00:59

steve2267 wrote:The Persians are not a stupid people. As such, they may come to the conclusion they cannot win kinetically and rather take this fight inter the cyberdomain. An all out cyber war may be pretty damaging to everyone. Dunno. However, there is evidence to suggest the USA may be able to stomp Iran into bits and bytes. How much damage the USA might suffer in return would be a risk the President has to weigh.

On the other hand, no one "sees" cyber. You don't see dead bodies (well, as readily) or attributable damage such as when a bomb explodes. So will the Persian ego allow the Iranians to not go kinetic, and rather to fight a cyber war? Or will the lack of explosions and physical suffering cause a "loss of face" to the Persians in the minds of their "followers," "adherents," or allies?

If they go overt kinetic, then I sure hope Pres Trump takes the gloves off (or has a super plan) and destroys the Iranian nuclear programs, at a minimum.


As with the last major conflict in the ME, Israels reaction to any diversionary hits may be the decider of who fights with who. I can easily see Iran letting Israel have a few rounds of incoming scrap metal, if the fighting really startes.
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magitsu

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Unread post06 Jan 2020, 02:58

wrightwing wrote:
magitsu wrote:Goes a maybe bit too far to suggest willingness to engage in war crimes. Cultural sites can't be targeted.

He didn't say cultural sites were targeted.

He even reiterates it.

"Breaking News: President Trump doubled down on his threat to target Iranian cultural sites if Iran retaliated for the killing of Gen. Suleimani"
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1213987834694131716
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Corsair1963

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Unread post06 Jan 2020, 03:02

magitsu wrote:
wrightwing wrote:
magitsu wrote:Goes a maybe bit too far to suggest willingness to engage in war crimes. Cultural sites can't be targeted.

He didn't say cultural sites were targeted.

He even reiterates it.

"Breaking News: President Trump doubled down on his threat to target Iranian cultural sites if Iran retaliated for the killing of Gen. Suleimani"
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1213987834694131716



Never going to happen....Plus, what Trump says he will do and actually does. Are often two very different things...
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steve2267

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Unread post06 Jan 2020, 03:09

Twitter link no workie...

As much as I detest quoting CNN, the President's words were:
Trump warns Iran if it hits any Americans or American assets 'we have targeted 52 Iranian sites'
By Jeremy Diamond, Caroline Kelly and Greg Clary, CNN Updated 12:51 AM ET, Sun January 5, 2020

"We have ... targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/04/politics/trump-warning-iran-52-assets/index.html


He did NOT say the US would strike "cultural site." Rather, he stated "we have targeted 52 Iranian sites" some of which are important to Iranian culture. IMO, there is a difference.

For example, IMO, the World Trade Center Twin Towers were important to American Culture, but they were not "cultural sites."

FWIW, Secretary of State Pompeo acknowledged the controversy but clarified that the US would not do anything "illegal" with regard to targeting etc.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post06 Jan 2020, 03:24

If, Iran does strike the US for killing Iranian General Qassem Soleimani. I wouldn't counter by attacking Military Targets at least not as the primary target.


Instead I would hurt Iran in her soft underbelly! By that I mean the countries infrastructure. For example first strike at major power plants in the major cities. These would knock out power to millions of Iranians. Which, would be very costly to repair and get back up! Especially, attacking multiple sites at a time. Now, if that doesn't get them to change course. Then start targeting major bridges one by one! If, that doesn't work announce Oil Production Facilities will soon follow....

Remember, considerable discontent is already going on within the country! This would further fuel that...

Also, such attacks could occur late at night and in select areas. In order to keep causalities as light as humanly possible!
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marsavian

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Unread post06 Jan 2020, 03:24

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/05/us/p ... sites.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/05/worl ... -iraq.html

Such a move could be considered a war crime under international laws, but Mr. Trump said Sunday that he was undeterred.

“They’re allowed to kill our people. They’re allowed to torture and maim our people. They’re allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people,” the president said. “And we’re not allowed to touch their cultural site? It doesn’t work that way.”

The remarks came just hours after the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, walked back Mr. Trump’s tweets and said that whatever was done in any military engagement with Iran would be within the bounds of the law.

Mr. Trump also vowed to impose sanctions on Iraq if a move to evict American military personnel from the country takes place, a possibility heightened by the Iraqi Parliament’s passage Sunday of a measure to expel foreign troops. Mr. Trump warned Iraq on Sunday that there would be dire consequences for expelling American forces.

“We have a very extraordinarily expensive air base that’s there,” he said. “It cost billions of dollars to build, long before my time. We’re not leaving unless they pay us back for it.”

“If they do ask us to leave,” he added, “if we don’t do it in a very friendly basis, we will charge them sanctions like they’ve never seen before ever. It’ll make Iranian sanctions look somewhat tame.”


How General Suleimani became a target

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/04/us/p ... imani.html
Last edited by marsavian on 06 Jan 2020, 09:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post06 Jan 2020, 03:29

steve2267 wrote:
He did NOT say the US would strike "cultural site." Rather, he stated "we have targeted 52 Iranian sites" some of which are important to Iranian culture. IMO, there is a difference.

For example, IMO, the World Trade Center Twin Towers were important to American Culture, but they were not "cultural sites."

FWIW, Secretary of State Pompeo acknowledged the controversy but clarified that the US would not do anything "illegal" with regard to targeting etc.


Actually, I think the Liberal Media is hurting their cause by such attacks on Trump. As the general US Public has had about a enough of Iran. So, spinning the killing of Qassem Soleimani as a bad thing. Doesn't hold much water with most Americans.
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marsavian

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Unread post06 Jan 2020, 03:32

Corsair1963 wrote:If, Iran does strike the US for killing Iranian General Qassem Soleimani. I wouldn't counter by attacking Military Targets at least not as the primary target.

Instead I would hurt Iran in her soft underbelly! By that I mean the countries infrastructure. For example first strike at major power plants in the major cities. These would knock out power to millions of Iranians. Which, would be very costly to repair and get back up! Especially, attacking multiple sites at a time. Now, if that doesn't get them to change course. Then start targeting major bridges one by one! If, that doesn't work announce Oil Production Facilities will soon follow....

Remember, considerable discontent is already going on within the country! This would further fuel that...

Also, such attacks could occur late at night and in select areas. In order to keep causalities as light as humanly possible!


Disagree as you ultimately would want regime change so that a less expansionist secular government took over not the destruction of the country and the long term hate of the population. Shah 2.0 or a democratic version of it.
Their military has to be dismantled over time by continual aerial bombardment as well as direct assassinations of their leaders. The only non military targets should be nuclear facilities but they are ultimately military too.
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magitsu

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Unread post06 Jan 2020, 03:41

Regime change was assessed as unlikely before. Now it should be even harder when there's things that unite the fractions. Current situation looks once again impossible to win at a strategic level even if all tactical engagements were successful.
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