Do we want to win agiant Isis or Not?

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white_lightning35

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Unread post20 Oct 2017, 00:12

botsing wrote:So what happened to the Forum etiquette?

Avoid politics and religion: http://www.f-16.net/guidelines.html

There's a reason why we have this guideline: it prevents this forum from quickly turning into a political and racist vulgarity.


Excellently said.
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Unread post20 Oct 2017, 00:24

mixelflick wrote:They're surrendering in droves now because Trump changed the ROE.

All you Trump haters save your rotten tomatoes. President Trump knows how to fight and win: You don't wait to be shot at, you see ISIS, you kill ISIS. Simple.You don't telegraph your moves, you play it close to the vest. You don't draw red lines, have an enemy cross them and then... do nothing. You tell them you'll bomb the sh!t out of them, then you do it. You use the biggest non-nuclear weapon there is (MOAB), you don't drop concrete bombs that are mildly amusing.

He's not perfect but he is getting results and throttling ISIS wherever we find them.

Diversity is the greatest of human values huh? Except when we send 21 BILLION in aid to Puerto Rico, and they give us what in return? In MA, we are getting flooded with Puerto Ricans "fleeing the horrors of Hurricane Maria". Nearly 40% of Puerto Ricans on the island are on some form of social welfare. In MA, that figure is a LOT higher. They're US citizens, but pay no income taxes and refuse to speak our language. They're bankrupt, and now they want us to bail them out. Forget the fact we're about 20 TRILLION in debt ourselves. You think maybe PR will come to our aid when that bill comes due?

I wonder when we in MA should expect the people from FL or TX? Oh wait, they're busing re-building their communities, not b!tching about the gov't not doing enough...


Attributing this all to the president is just ridiculous. The defeats that isis has had are due to the work of many people from many places. Ordering someone to drop a large bomb does not make him the savior of the West. He is sitting in a nice comfy chair in the white house, just like other leaders, while the actual work is being done by the brave men and women on the ground. Some would say that trump's rhetoric is what is defeating isis, some would say that isis was being worn down already. Regardless, it does not reflect well on you or this forum to say things like "you trump haters save your rotten tomatoes".

I do agree with much of what you said about PR.
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Unread post20 Oct 2017, 15:14

All you Trump haters save your rotten tomatoes. President Trump knows how to fight and win: You don't wait to be shot at, you see ISIS, you kill ISIS. Simple.You don't telegraph your moves, you play it close to the vest. You don't draw red lines, have an enemy cross them and then... do nothing. You tell them you'll bomb the sh!t out of them, then you do it. You use the biggest non-nuclear weapon there is (MOAB), you don't drop concrete bombs that are mildly amusing.

He's not perfect but he is getting results and throttling ISIS wherever we find them.

Diversity is the greatest of human values huh? Except when we send 21 BILLION in aid to Puerto Rico, and they give us what in return? In MA, we are getting flooded with Puerto Ricans "fleeing the horrors of Hurricane Maria". Nearly 40% of Puerto Ricans on the island are on some form of social welfare. In MA, that figure is a LOT higher. They're US citizens, but pay no income taxes and refuse to speak our language. They're bankrupt, and now they want us to bail them out. Forget the fact we're about 20 TRILLION in debt ourselves. You think maybe PR will come to our aid when that bill comes due?



[/quote][/quote][/quote]The fall of Mosul, and Raqqa, wasn't much accelerated by changes in ROEs, or the president shooting his mouth off. It's been a matter of organizing an effective ground force, and better target acquisition. If Hillary was president we would have had the same outcome. The campaigns in Iraq, and Syria were well advanced when Trump came into office. Trump has been in office for 9 months, this has hardly been a Blitzkrieg campaign.

As for keeping strategic targets secret, like much of what Trump says makes sense superficially, but is really nonsense. Major strategic objectives are usually obvious, it's tactical surprise that you need to achieve. In the spring of 1944 the whole world knew the Allies were going to cross the English Channel, to liberate France. Where, and when the invasion force would land was a secret. Taking back Mosul, and Raqqa were obvious objectives, and stating it was politically beneficial, not revealing a secret. Don't you think ISIS could figure that out?

As for Puerto Rico your comments are revealing of where your heart is. This has to go down as the worst managed relief operation in American History. It is a national disgrace. A month after the storm people are still dying, and conditions in some areas are getting worse. 3/4 of the people have no power, and 1/2 have no clean water. People are starting to coming down with water borne illnesses.

We are using half the troops we used in the aftermath of Katrina. No one is in charge of this operation. On day two Trump should have put an admiral in charge of all relief and recovery operations. A CBG, and ARG should have been sent, along with two battalions of CBs, and two of army combat engineers. The roads need to be cleared, bridging put in, power lines restored, water purification systems set up, medical units deployed. It would have been nice if the Hospital Ship had been actually used.

As for taxes Puerto Ricans pay all federal taxes, except income taxes. If they work for the federal government they do pay it. They are not eligible for SSI programs, but pay into social security. In 2009 Puerto Rico paid $3.742 Billion to the U.S. Treasury. Puerto Rico is poorer then any state of the union. So they refuse to speak English? You do know the history of Puerto Rico. don't you? It was ruled by Spain until taken by the U.S. in the Spanish American War. It was never settled by large numbers of mainland Americans.

Tens of thousands of Puerto Ricans have fought in American Wars, and 1,225 have been killed in action. The 65th Regiment fought with honor in the Korean War. It's member were awarded 1 Medal of Honor, 10 Distinguished Service Crosses, 256 Silver Stars, 606 Bronze Stars, and 2,771 Purple Hearts. 48,000 Puerto Rican served in the Vietnam War. Oh ya they were eligible for the Draft like all Americans. I think their blood is red enough.

Trump may not care much about what they think because they can't vote in federal elections. The jokes on you. Since so many can't sustain their lives on the island about another million will be coming to the mainland, half to Florida. Once here they can vote. Trump's the best recruiter the democrats have ever had. Assuming Trump's not impeached by then do you think he has a chance in Hell of taking Florida in 2020? Can any republican get the stink off him by them?
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Unread post20 Oct 2017, 15:23

white_lightning35 wrote:Attributing this all to the president is just ridiculous. The defeats that isis has had are due to the work of many people from many places. Ordering someone to drop a large bomb does not make him the savior of the West. He is sitting in a nice comfy chair in the white house, just like other leaders, while the actual work is being done by the brave men and women on the ground. Some would say that trump's rhetoric is what is defeating isis, some would say that isis was being worn down already. Regardless, it does not reflect well on you or this forum to say things like "you trump haters save your rotten tomatoes".

I do agree with much of what you said about PR.


I've got news for you the ROE and EOF rules from the last president effectively gutted our forces ability to kill and win. I know people personally who were so upset with the rules getting in the way of their purpose that they left the military at the first opportunity. We lost so many good people to the enemy and the civilian world with the last guys stupidity.

Yes trump is in a comfy chair, but you're foolish to think that the bosses attitude and orders don't effect how things shake out. Reagan's famous "all the way to the hangers" order with the Libyans is still the stuff of legend.

And god emperor Mattis praise be upon him, is hopefully getting things on the right track. Success has many fathers. The average Joe on the street still has no clue how badly Obama screwed up the entire situation and the US military, because the devil is in the details and most people don't understand how the machine works.


Dropping that big bomb was a huge change. MOAB for years was sidelined as "unusable" right up there with nukes. That was as much a message to the US forces, and allies as it was to the enemy. Downright refreshing.

The nice thing about trump is he seems to be issuing terrorist hunter licences again, and making killing bad guys great again
Last edited by XanderCrews on 20 Oct 2017, 15:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post20 Oct 2017, 15:29

tincansailor wrote:Blah blah


Reported.

Havnt you guys figured out yet That if you mention the Trump tin can will spend some time at his computing machine comparing him to Hitler, and confusing his opinion with facts?

A few months ago tin can was telling us about how trumps attitude toward his generals was Hitler like. Now it's "well of course things are going well! What about Puerto Rico!?"
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Unread post20 Oct 2017, 17:21

XanderCrews wrote:
I've got news for you the ROE and EOF rules from the last president effectively gutted our forces ability to kill and win. I know people personally who were so upset with the rules getting in the way of their purpose that they left the military at the first opportunity. We lost so many good people to the enemy and the civilian world with the last guys stupidity.

Yes trump is in a comfy chair, but you're foolish to think that the bosses attitude and orders don't effect how things shake out. Reagan's famous "all the way to the hangers" order with the Libyans is still the stuff of legend.

And god emperor Mattis praise be upon him, is hopefully getting things on the right track. Success has many fathers. The average Joe on the street still has no clue how badly Obama screwed up the entire situation and the US military, because the devil is in the details and most people don't understand how the machine works.


Dropping that big bomb was a huge change. MOAB for years was sidelined as "unusable" right up there with nukes. That was as much a message to the US forces, and allies as it was to the enemy. Downright refreshing.

The nice thing about trump is he seems to be issuing terrorist hunter licences again, and making killing bad guys great again


I also hate to see these people in the media who love to do whatever they can to try and find "war crimes" committed by our side, and secretly hope something does happen so they can slather it all over the world. I've read as well of ridiculous ROE"s that make life far more dangerous for our troops. I just think that there are many parts in the machine, and that attributing all victories to Trump feels wrong when there is so much work being done by other men and women to make it happe, IMO.
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Unread post20 Oct 2017, 17:50

white_lightning35 wrote:I've read as well of ridiculous ROE"s that make life far more dangerous for our troops.

"you may not engage the enemy unless he has already shot you. Firing at you is not grounds to engage. Wounding/killing the guy next to you is not grounds to engage." I'm exaggerating a LOT here, but I have honestly seen ROEs (W-era) so restrictive that one enemy engaged two soldiers and had shot one before either had a round in the chamber while on a guard duty. Less than two seconds after rounds were chambered the enemy combatant was dead. The soldier who was hit was a lucky as lucky can be.
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Unread post20 Oct 2017, 19:16

XanderCrews wrote:god emperor Mattis praise be upon him


https://www.duffelblog.com/2016/12/mili ... uccession/
"You could do that, but it would be wrong."
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Unread post20 Oct 2017, 22:47

BREAKING NEWS the first six people in line for the presidency have all decided to retire at the same time and become professional golfers at one of trump's courses. "It's simply tremendous, folks. This sixsome of ours is one of the best, maybe the best ever. We're lowering our handicaps bigly, and are sinking MILLIONS and MILLIONS of 30 ft. putts, let me tell you. My drives are YUGE, and straighter then Mike Pence is, if that's possible.", the former president could be heard saying.
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Unread post21 Oct 2017, 01:53

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Unread post21 Oct 2017, 02:50

Gentleman, as botsing so kindly reminded you guys, please refrain from discussing straight up politics (aircraft program politics are okay). There are many discussion boards to do so; this is not one of them. No need to turn a (more-or-less) civilized and (somewhat) technical forum into a poop-flinging contest. To each their own views.
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Unread post24 Oct 2017, 16:05

tincansailor wrote:
All you Trump haters save your rotten tomatoes. President Trump knows how to fight and win: You don't wait to be shot at, you see ISIS, you kill ISIS. Simple.You don't telegraph your moves, you play it close to the vest. You don't draw red lines, have an enemy cross them and then... do nothing. You tell them you'll bomb the sh!t out of them, then you do it. You use the biggest non-nuclear weapon there is (MOAB), you don't drop concrete bombs that are mildly amusing.

He's not perfect but he is getting results and throttling ISIS wherever we find them.

Diversity is the greatest of human values huh? Except when we send 21 BILLION in aid to Puerto Rico, and they give us what in return? In MA, we are getting flooded with Puerto Ricans "fleeing the horrors of Hurricane Maria". Nearly 40% of Puerto Ricans on the island are on some form of social welfare. In MA, that figure is a LOT higher. They're US citizens, but pay no income taxes and refuse to speak our language. They're bankrupt, and now they want us to bail them out. Forget the fact we're about 20 TRILLION in debt ourselves. You think maybe PR will come to our aid when that bill comes due?



[/quote][/quote]The fall of Mosul, and Raqqa, wasn't much accelerated by changes in ROEs, or the president shooting his mouth off. It's been a matter of organizing an effective ground force, and better target acquisition. If Hillary was president we would have had the same outcome. The campaigns in Iraq, and Syria were well advanced when Trump came into office. Trump has been in office for 9 months, this has hardly been a Blitzkrieg campaign.

As for keeping strategic targets secret, like much of what Trump says makes sense superficially, but is really nonsense. Major strategic objectives are usually obvious, it's tactical surprise that you need to achieve. In the spring of 1944 the whole world knew the Allies were going to cross the English Channel, to liberate France. Where, and when the invasion force would land was a secret. Taking back Mosul, and Raqqa were obvious objectives, and stating it was politically beneficial, not revealing a secret. Don't you think ISIS could figure that out?

As for Puerto Rico your comments are revealing of where your heart is. This has to go down as the worst managed relief operation in American History. It is a national disgrace. A month after the storm people are still dying, and conditions in some areas are getting worse. 3/4 of the people have no power, and 1/2 have no clean water. People are starting to coming down with water borne illnesses.

We are using half the troops we used in the aftermath of Katrina. No one is in charge of this operation. On day two Trump should have put an admiral in charge of all relief and recovery operations. A CBG, and ARG should have been sent, along with two battalions of CBs, and two of army combat engineers. The roads need to be cleared, bridging put in, power lines restored, water purification systems set up, medical units deployed. It would have been nice if the Hospital Ship had been actually used.

As for taxes Puerto Ricans pay all federal taxes, except income taxes. If they work for the federal government they do pay it. They are not eligible for SSI programs, but pay into social security. In 2009 Puerto Rico paid $3.742 Billion to the U.S. Treasury. Puerto Rico is poorer then any state of the union. So they refuse to speak English? You do know the history of Puerto Rico. don't you? It was ruled by Spain until taken by the U.S. in the Spanish American War. It was never settled by large numbers of mainland Americans.

Tens of thousands of Puerto Ricans have fought in American Wars, and 1,225 have been killed in action. The 65th Regiment fought with honor in the Korean War. It's member were awarded 1 Medal of Honor, 10 Distinguished Service Crosses, 256 Silver Stars, 606 Bronze Stars, and 2,771 Purple Hearts. 48,000 Puerto Rican served in the Vietnam War. Oh ya they were eligible for the Draft like all Americans. I think their blood is red enough.

Trump may not care much about what they think because they can't vote in federal elections. The jokes on you. Since so many can't sustain their lives on the island about another million will be coming to the mainland, half to Florida. Once here they can vote. Trump's the best recruiter the democrats have ever had. Assuming Trump's not impeached by then do you think he has a chance in Hell of taking Florida in 2020? Can any republican get the stink off him by them?[/quote]

Come to MA and see for yourself: We're being inundated with PR "refugees" from the storms - most of them going straight to public assistance. Tell me, when do you think the people from FL and TX storms will be coming here to collect? The people from the CA wildfire's?

Oh wait, they're busy re-building their communities.

The fact they all vote Democrat you're proud of? When nearly 40% are on public assistance, they don't have another option now - do they? Of course Democrats know this, so they keep the handout programs going. They've done a nice job building a subservient underclass, sadly keeping them from ever having a respectable standard of living.

Also, 21 BILLION a year would have bought a shiny new fleet of Raptors. At least we would have gotten a return on that investment..
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Unread post27 Oct 2017, 00:56

XanderCrews wrote:
tincansailor wrote:.



I'm not. Just reporting. Keep wasting your time though.

The issue isn't who you voted for, the issue is you polluting every thread with the same diatribes when certain names are mentioned...

Snowflakes gonna snowflake



You had to have read it or you wouldn't know what I wrote. The fact that you didn't find offensive what was said about Puerto Rico says a lot about you. That your offended by what I wrote says volumes about you too. If being a Trump sycophant compels you to support the view that Puerto Ricans are second class citizens, that don't deserve help I feel sorry for you. To live with such anger in you is sad. Very sad.

If you think Trump is personally responsible for our successes against ISIS you must think that Woodrow Wilson personally won WWI. What evidence do you have that Trump personally devised a new strategy against ISIS? I know you've never needed facts before, but really. How long do you think it took to recruit, arm, and train the Kurdish force that took Raqqa? You think that all happened since January?

I'll give Trump credit for easing the ROE, but could you give Obama credit for setting our recent victory in motion? I think Obama was a rotten president, and Trump is catastrophic, but I'm objective enough to give them credit where it's do. Can you? You probable can't, so I guess you'll claim you didn't read this, and tell me your reporting me to the moderators. I could make a lot of money off you, your so predictable.
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Unread post31 Oct 2017, 18:58

You had to have read it or you wouldn't know what I wrote. The fact that you didn't find offensive what was said about Puerto Rico says a lot about you. That your offended by what I wrote says volumes about you too. If being a Trump sycophant compels you to support the view that Puerto Ricans are second class citizens, that don't deserve help I feel sorry for you. To live with such anger in you is sad. Very sad.

If you think Trump is personally responsible for our successes against ISIS you must think that Woodrow Wilson personally won WWI. What evidence do you have that Trump personally devised a new strategy against ISIS? I know you've never needed facts before, but really. How long do you think it took to recruit, arm, and train the Kurdish force that took Raqqa? You think that all happened since January?

I'll give Trump credit for easing the ROE, but could you give Obama credit for setting our recent victory in motion? I think Obama was a rotten president, and Trump is catastrophic, but I'm objective enough to give them credit where it's do. Can you? You probable can't, so I guess you'll claim you didn't read this, and tell me your reporting me to the moderators. I could make a lot of money off you, your so predictable.[/quote]

You know, you're right. We'll all just pretend they're really hard workers, the 37% on welfare don't exist, the food stamps aren't used and they're really not speaking spanish when they come here, instead of ENGLISH. Finally, we'll pretend the 21 BILLION a year we give them is really them sending us money, and further we'll pretend theirs isn't a failed culture.

One last time: When can we expect the refugees from FL, TX and California? I noticed you avoided answering.

Hint: It's because the people of FL, TX and CA are busy re-building their communities - not bitching about not getting enough help. 21 BILLION a year would have bought a shiny new fleet of Raptors. Instead, we're weighed down with more dead weight..
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