Indian Mirage 2000 hits targets in Pakistan

[Shimud]

Look at the difference in engine sizes. that PW-F100 is gigantic by comparison.

Seems like a JF-17. Fuselage square extention to tail.

Its improving every passing day. Initially it was an F-16. Now a JF-17.

[basher54321]

Looks like a fake photoshop flattened pic. Also the mig shade does not match the bucket shade in the back looking like a winter sun set lighting from the left.

No pretty certain it is not image edited - it is also not the only photo of this wreck and they would have had to edit all the Videos that show this as well.

If you think about this - India officially admitted losing a MiG-21Bison so Pakistan didn't need to spend any effort at all trying to fake photos etc.

[basher54321]

Seems like a JF-17. Fuselage square extention to tail.

Go back to here viewtopic.php?f=37&t=55055&start=30 and read through the entire thread so you can see all the images etc - it is 100% MiG-21 wreckage guaranteed.

[basher54321]

Well, we saw the wreckage and pilot of the Mig-21. So, confirmed one kill.........Yet, what about the F-16 and Su-30MKI???

Not seen anything else of any substance yet outside of that Indian officials are sticking to 1-1 and Pakistan officials are sticking to 2-0.

An Mi-17 crashed on the same day was some distance away - but again probably unrelated.

Oh and a piece of AIM-120 was found.

Separate all the chaff and that is about the only summary thus far.

[Shimud]

Well, we saw the wreckage and pilot of the Mig-21. So, confirmed one kill.........Yet, what about the F-16 and Su-30MKI???

Not seen anything else of any substance yet outside of that Indian officials are sticking to 1-1 and Pakistan officials are sticking to 2-0.

An Mi-17 crashed on the same day was some distance away - but again probably unrelated.

Oh and a piece of AIM-120 was found.

Separate all the chaff and that is about the only summary thus far.

with this summary, you just did a service to the humanity.

[tphuang]

This is pretty amazing. Let's see what happened here even by IAF sources.

They had a mig-21 shot down.

They only got one shot off on R-73. The downed pilots claimed this manage to bring down F-16. Funny, since there is no wreckage. And I'm personally quite dubious of Mig-21's situation awareness when it's going down in flames.

Their amazing Su-30 apparently never locked onto any PAF aircraft to even launch weapons.

They got locked on multiple times by PAF F-16s. Long enough to be fired at.

They managed to evade some AMRAAMs fired at the edge of their range (rather than like within 20 miles which would have much better chance of success)

What's there to be proud of from IAF or Su-30 point of view? The flankers couldn't lock onto any F-16s. They defeated AMRAAMs at a range that they should be able to get away with. Those shots were more like hail marys than anything else.

[citanon]

This is pretty amazing. Let's see what happened here even by IAF sources.

They had a mig-21 shot down.

They only got one shot off on R-73. The downed pilots claimed this manage to bring down F-16. Funny, since there is no wreckage. And I'm personally quite dubious of Mig-21's situation awareness when it's going down in flames.

Their amazing Su-30 apparently never locked onto any PAF aircraft to even launch weapons.

They got locked on multiple times by PAF F-16s. Long enough to be fired at.

They managed to evade some AMRAAMs fired at the edge of their range (rather than like within 20 miles which would have much better chance of success)

What's there to be proud of from IAF or Su-30 point of view? The flankers couldn't lock onto any F-16s. They defeated AMRAAMs at a range that they should be able to get away with. Those shots were more like hail marys than anything else.

Were Su-30s even in the area? Plenty of claims to that effect but I don't think we really know which planes were even there.

Also, I don't think the downed pilot claimed anything. Indian media made all sorts of claims for him before he even got back. Suspect part of his debriefing will be to "get the story straight". If he doesn't sign on to this we probably won't see a direct interview with him.

[mair]

This is pretty amazing. Let's see what happened here even by IAF sources.

They had a mig-21 shot down.

They only got one shot off on R-73. The downed pilots claimed this manage to bring down F-16. Funny, since there is no wreckage. And I'm personally quite dubious of Mig-21's situation awareness when it's going down in flames.

Their amazing Su-30 apparently never locked onto any PAF aircraft to even launch weapons.

They got locked on multiple times by PAF F-16s. Long enough to be fired at.

They managed to evade some AMRAAMs fired at the edge of their range (rather than like within 20 miles which would have much better chance of success)

What's there to be proud of from IAF or Su-30 point of view? The flankers couldn't lock onto any F-16s. They defeated AMRAAMs at a range that they should be able to get away with. Those shots were more like hail marys than anything else.

Were Su-30s even in the area? Plenty of claims to that effect but I don't think we really know which planes were even there.

Also, I don't think the downed pilot claimed anything. Indian media made all sorts of claims for him before he even got back. Suspect part of his debriefing will be to "get the story straight". If he doesn't sign on to this we probably won't see a direct interview with him.

Indian officials have categorically stated that Su-30s, Mirage 2000s and Mig 21s were used during the course of operations on the 27th of Feb 2019. https://www.google.com.pk/amp/s/theprin ... 01726/amp/

What strikes me as particularly curious about all this isn’t the Pakistani or Indian version of events but the fact that that mi-17 chopper simply happened to have a technical fault on the same day and within the same time frame as this aerial engagement. 100 kms (or 54 NM) isn’t that great a distance for a fighter jet. My guess is that it inadvertently took Pakistani or Indian fire. Or something else ....

Now I’m not normally one for conspiracy theories but this has all the recipes for one.The Indian side has said that it was a ‘technical fault’ within a matter of hours, but their officials have also stated(rightly) that it’s too early to speculate on the exact causes of said crash until the investigation is completed. https://www.google.com.pk/amp/s/m.econo ... 279700.cms
But if you deem it ‘too early to comment’ than why have you asserted that the cause of the crash was a technicla fault at all? As opposed to pilot error, possible act of terror etc.

Something doesn’t smell right. And then Pakistan claims that they shot down an Su-30 mki as well at the same time.

Is it possible that while the media focused on the mig 21 and mi 17 wreckage someplace else was hastily cleared? Could it be true or not? Ultimately the truth is known to the other aircraft pilots that flew that day, as well as the radar controllers on both sides. Pakistan is eager to de escalate and wants talks, so it would make sense that they would withhold this information even if they had made the Su-30 kill to avoid antagonising Indian public opinion further, but why would India withhold said information? Surely data from the ground controller and other fighters flying that day would be more conclusive than a burned out missile to prove that they downed an f-16?

[aten]

This is pretty amazing. Let's see what happened here even by IAF sources.

Now I’m not normally one for conspiracy theories but this has all the recipes for one.The Indian side has said that it was a ‘technical fault’ within a matter of hours, but their officials have also stated(rightly) that it’s too early to speculate on the exact causes of said crash until the investigation is completed. https://www.google.com.pk/amp/s/m.econo ... 279700.cms
But if you deem it ‘too early to comment’ than why have you asserted that the cause of the crash was a technicla fault at all? As opposed to pilot error, possible act of terror etc.

Something doesn’t smell right. And then Pakistan claims that they shot down an Su-30 mki as well at the same time.

Is it possible that while the media focused on the mig 21 and mi 17 wreckage someplace else was hastily cleared? Could it be true or not? Ultimately the truth is known to the other aircraft pilots that flew that day, as well as the radar controllers on both sides. Pakistan is eager to de escalate and wants talks, so it would make sense that they would withhold this information even if they had made the Su-30 kill to avoid antagonising Indian public opinion further, but why would India withhold said information? Surely data from the ground controller and other fighters flying that day would be more conclusive than a burned out missile to prove that they downed an f-16?

Just to add to what you stated, what I also find interesting is the fact that Indians are claiming that 4 to 5 AIM120 were fired over Kashmir that day (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 277222.cms). The fact that they discovered one AIM120 the next day is interesting enough as Spain is probably still search for theirs over Estonia, but what happened to remaining 3 to 4 AMRAAMs? Why are they not found? Indians friends are saying that Kashmir is a lot more densely populated than Estonia and the AIM120 they found hit the ground injuring someone and thats how it was found(https://t.co/xAFul4jyky) However no image of impact crater mentioned in the article has been posted anywhere AFAIK. I find it strange that they found one AMRAAM so quickly and others are not found at all, not sure if they are even looking for them.

[aten]

A few other points that stood to me are the claim that F16s were firing their AIM120 40 -50 KM away which seems like they were providing top cover without crossing LOC. The article also mentions that both Mig21 and SU30 were targeted by the AIM120 and both avoided getting hit which is pretty fascinating. I wonder what counter measured they used as AIM120c5 has a hit rate of 60% (i think) . I also wonder why SU30 did not fire back when they were engaged by the F16? According to this article (https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/i ... 2019-03-06) Abhi Mig 21 was the sole fighter from Indian side that fired anything at all which is also a little strange. Why did Mig21 decide to engage while SU30, arguable the most advance fighter on both side, did not engage at all. I also wonder whether the F16 Abhi claimed to have shot was from a different formation than the F16 that were firing AIM120 from 40 miles away.

There are too many pieces still missing in this puzzle and hopefully things will become more clear once fog of war is lifted.

[mair]

[]


Just to add to what you stated, what I also find interesting is the fact that Indians are claiming that 4 to 5 AIM120 were fired over Kashmir that day (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 277222.cms). The fact that they discovered one AIM120 the next day is interesting enough as Spain is probably still search for theirs over Estonia, but what happened to remaining 3 to 4 AMRAAMs? Why are they not found? Indians friends are saying that Kashmir is a lot more densely populated than Estonia and the AIM120 they found hit the ground injuring someone and thats how it was found(https://t.co/xAFul4jyky) However no image of impact crater mentioned in the article has been posted anywhere AFAIK. I find it strange that they found one AMRAAM so quickly and others are not found at all, not sure if they are even looking for them.

That AMRAAM very probably seems to have been extracted from the wreckage, since finding the scraps of a high speed missile in the vast Kashmiri mountains is no mean feat. What’s more, this scrap was present in Delhi within 24 hours in time for the press conference by the Indian military top brass. Only question for me is whether said wreckage was an inadvertently hit mi 17 or a deliberately hit Su-30/some other IAF jet.

[botsing]

Currently the only interesting thing about this thread is the amount of new members popping up in it.

On a positive note; it makes it rather easy to track the propaganda trolls.

[hythelday]

Currently the only interesting thing about this thread is the amount of new members popping up in it.

On a positive note; it makes it rather easy to track the propaganda trolls.

I enjoyed the fact that most of them are friends with fighter pilots on both sides of LoC, who told them the real story. Maybe the venerable mustachio Wing Commander will pay us a visit soon?

[mair]

Currently the only interesting thing about this thread is the amount of new members popping up in it.

On a positive note; it makes it rather easy to track the propaganda trolls.

You don’t think the fact that the mi 17 crashed on the same date, in the same vicinity and at the same time that the dogfight was taking place needs an explanation?

Helicopter just happens to suffer a technical fault and crashes and burns right next to an active battlefield?

Also How is this propaganda, neither side has claimed that the chopper was shot down

[weasel1962]

Currently the only interesting thing about this thread is the amount of new members popping up in it.

On a positive note; it makes it rather easy to track the propaganda trolls.

+1.

Having gone thru the era as described below. Nothing new.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... beat-29367

According to official releases from Boeing and the U.S. Air Force, the F-15 Eagle has a clear-cut win-to-loss ratio of 104 to zero. But in fact, opposing air forces have claimed, in nearly a dozen cases, to have shot down the iconic, twin-engine fighter.

All the claims have one thing in common. The claimants were never able to provide any evidence for their supposed victories.

Anticipate to wait at least until India elections are over before can get some peace back.