F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

madrat · by **madrat** » 16 Jun 2020, 13:05

So basically this requires a centerline tank? Do wingtanks bounce too much?

sprstdlyscottsmn · by **sprstdlyscottsmn** » 16 Jun 2020, 13:54

That is the Super Hornet implementation. Mudhens will carry it in the pylon for the TGP.

sferrin · by **sferrin** » 16 Jun 2020, 15:51

Why not just buy the IRST from Japan. At least they know how to do an IRST right on the F-15.

weasel1962 · by **weasel1962** » 16 Jun 2020, 16:48

Thought the legion pod was already up and running. What's changed?

marauder2048 · by **marauder2048** » 16 Jun 2020, 18:17

weasel1962 wrote:Thought the legion pod was already up and running. What's changed?

Nothing.

But the notion that the big and high contrast F-15 is going to out-IRST
threat fighters (aside from the Flanker series) is silly.

So the motivation is really counter cruise missile. Thus, the podded forms and their installation points make sense
both from a cost and utility perspective; they are only looking to buy 100 of them.

aaam · by **aaam** » 16 Jun 2020, 19:54

sferrin wrote:Why not just buy the IRST from Japan. At least they know how to do an IRST right on the F-15.

Only a few F-15Js got IRST as part of a test. A major upgrade to add it was canceled in the late 2000s when they had a change in governments.

There is a new $4.5 billion upgrade that was approved last year for the 100 of the Js which may include IRST, it's something they've wanted for a while.

weasel1962 · by **weasel1962** » 17 Jun 2020, 08:21

The dsca announcement for the upgrade did not include a IRST (nor sniper pods). Strange since they integrated the Sniper on the F-2.

https://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/j ... ernization

LM was supposed to have separately developed a SAR pod for the J. Maybe they are doing the same for the IRST.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 17 Jun 2020, 09:58

I am sure this has been asked before. Yet, why couldn't they just use the AAS-42 IRST and TCS combo from the F-14D???

: Tomcat IR TCS Chinpod.jpg (18.73 KiB) Viewed 28237 times

hornetfinn · by **hornetfinn** » 17 Jun 2020, 12:24

Corsair1963 wrote:I am sure this has been asked before. Yet, why couldn't they just use the AAS-42 IRST and TCS combo from the F-14D???

Tomcat IR TCS Chinpod.jpg

I'd say that is because AN/AAS-42 is now over 30 years old system and probably most components haven't been in production for about two decades. Software is equally old and would likely be difficult to modify and upgrade. Basically it's easier and cheaper to make a new system using currently available components and tools. At the same time performance, reliability and maintenance requirements are way better than what they were in AN/AAS-42.

talkitron · by **talkitron** » 17 Jun 2020, 17:23

aaam wrote:EPAWSS is a defensive and electronic warfare system (installation of which on the F-15C was canceled). As such, its capabilities do not intersect with the missions of Talon Hate (communications) and/or Legion (IRST an offensive sensor).

Never said they did, but there is limited money for upgrades.

marauder2048 · by **marauder2048** » 17 Jun 2020, 20:45

talkitron wrote:
aaam wrote:EPAWSS is a defensive and electronic warfare system (installation of which on the F-15C was canceled). As such, its capabilities do not intersect with the missions of Talon Hate (communications) and/or Legion (IRST an offensive sensor).

Never said they did, but there is limited money for upgrades.

It was on-again/off-again wrt EPAWSS and the F-15C. It was cut then restored then cut.

The argument against is that you don't really need EPAWSS for cruise missile defense as most land-attack cruise
missiles don't emit.

The argument for is that unit cost growth for F-15Es is a Nunn-McCurdy breach without the F-15C quantity.

madrat · by **madrat** » 17 Jun 2020, 22:00

It's sad that adding something on now makes it efficient for taxpayers. But we no longer have a series of auditors that thinks the administration is capable of decisions for the good of the country.

talkitron · by **talkitron** » 17 Jun 2020, 22:37

marauder2048 wrote:The argument against is that you don't really need EPAWSS for cruise missile defense as most land-attack cruise
missiles don't emit.

Where did you see the claim that F-15C upgrades are being driven by cruise missile defense? Interesting possibility though.

marauder2048 · by **marauder2048** » 18 Jun 2020, 00:21

talkitron wrote:
marauder2048 wrote:The argument against is that you don't really need EPAWSS for cruise missile defense as most land-attack cruise
missiles don't emit.

Where did you see the claim that F-15C upgrades are being driven by cruise missile defense? Interesting possibility though.

When EPAWSS was cut for the F-15C the argument was that the F-15C was mainly going to be use in the homeland
defense role and EPAWSS in general would not be necessary/useful for that role.

Since there's no fighter threat to the homeland and the likelihood of successfully intercepting the Russian
bombers before they launch their LACMs is negligible that leaves cruise missile defense as the main role.

The small purchase of Legion Pods is consistent with that view.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 18 Jun 2020, 02:15

hornetfinn wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:I am sure this has been asked before. Yet, why couldn't they just use the AAS-42 IRST and TCS combo from the F-14D???

Tomcat IR TCS Chinpod.jpg

I'd say that is because AN/AAS-42 is now over 30 years old system and probably most components haven't been in production for about two decades. Software is equally old and would likely be difficult to modify and upgrade. Basically it's easier and cheaper to make a new system using currently available components and tools. At the same time performance, reliability and maintenance requirements are way better than what they were in AN/AAS-42.

Found this....

QUOTE: Lockheed Martin developed the IRST21 sensor from the AN/AAS-42 IRST system it had supplied for the F-14D Tomcat. Another version of that earlier sensor system, known as Tiger Eyes, also found its way onto newer export versions of the F-15E Strike Eagle. You can read much more about the IRST21, its predecessors and the capabilities IRST sensors offer, in general, here.

The Legion Pod flew for the first time on an F-15C in 2016, having already gone through trials on an F-16 Viper the year before. In 2017, the Air Force picked the Lockheed Martin pod over Northrop Grumman's Open Pod and work has been ongoing since then to fully integrate into the service's Eagles. As of November 2018, the Air Force's plan was still to reach initial operational capability with the system on the F-15C in 2020.

The Legion Pod on the F-15C is just another example of the IRST21's growing popularity within the U.S. military, as well. U.S. Navy Block III F/A-18E/F Super Hornets are also getting this sensor, coupled with a modified centerline drop tank. Lockheed Martin's IRST21 is also a feature on the Air Force's Talon HATE communications node pod, which you can read about more here.

IRST capability is likely to be just one feature of the Legion Pod on the Air Force's F-15C as time goes on, too, and the system could easily migrate to other platforms in the future. From the very beginning, Lockheed Martin has touted the pod's open-architecture design and available extra payload space, which could accommodate additional sensors, electronic warfare systems, communications equipment, and more.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... -in-alaska