F-15X: USAF Seems Interested

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post17 Sep 2019, 01:47

southerncross wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:The F-15EX is just a slightly modified version of the Saudi/Qatar Eagle currently on the St Louis Production Line. Which, is why it was selected....

Are all those twin seaters? It was previously reported that the F-15X would come in two versions, single and twin seater.



YES....been sometime since a single seat Eagle came off the line....
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post17 Sep 2019, 03:25

Sorry fellas. Afaik there won't be an F-15CX ever. The cost of recertification is too high. Also, there is no production line or tooling for the lightweight C. Only E have been built since the 80s
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southerncross

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Unread post17 Sep 2019, 14:32

The guys at McDonnell Douglas and Boeing are certainly no idiots, so maybe the heavier structure is a real need, I read about some wing problems on the Cs. But it seems they will not optimize the plane beyond some systems, trying to keep costs at the absolute minimum to get approval for the funds. What is best is enemy of what is possible, proven once more.
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Unread post30 Oct 2019, 02:03

Japan to upgrade 98 F-15s.

https://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/j ... ernization

APG-82, ADCP II, DEWS among other bells and whistles.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post30 Oct 2019, 09:18

weasel1962 wrote:Japan to upgrade 98 F-15s.

https://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/j ... ernization

APG-82, ADCP II, DEWS among other bells and whistles.




Much cheaper than new F-35A's. Yet, also far less capable.... :shock:


You could likely have 3-4 upgraded F-15J's for the price of single New F-35A. Yet, that single Lightning is worth 20+ Eagles.... :wink:

NOTE: This has been the plan for sometime. That is to upgrade half of the F-15J Fleet and retire the other half.
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weasel1962

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Unread post30 Oct 2019, 17:16

Corsair1963 wrote:Much cheaper than new F-35A's. Yet, also far less capable.... :shock:


You could likely have 3-4 upgraded F-15J's for the price of single New F-35A. Yet, that single Lightning is worth 20+ Eagles.... :wink:

NOTE: This has been the plan for sometime. That is to upgrade half of the F-15J Fleet and retire the other half.


Source pls.
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marsavian

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Unread post30 Oct 2019, 17:21

Yet, that single Lightning is worth 20+ Eagles..


An F-35 can only do one interception sortie at a time just like an F-15. It's not worth 20+ Eagles in most scenarios. Japan also is buying F-35 in bulk so it doesn't have to choose either.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post30 Oct 2019, 17:40

marsavian wrote:
Yet, that single Lightning is worth 20+ Eagles..


An F-35 can only do one interception sortie at a time just like an F-15.



F-35s are more than the capacity of AAM they carry.

Youre comparing a B-17 to a B-52 both doing "one bomb sortie" at a time.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 03:52

marsavian wrote:
Yet, that single Lightning is worth 20+ Eagles..


An F-35 can only do one interception sortie at a time just like an F-15. It's not worth 20+ Eagles in most scenarios. Japan also is buying F-35 in bulk so it doesn't have to choose either.



1.) A single F-35A can destroy many more targets than a F-15J+ even during a single sortie. (QRA, Air Superiority, Counter Air, Fighter Escort, etc. etc.)

2.) Against a 4th Generation Fighter the F-35 is indeed worth 20+ adversaries. Also, while the exchange rate would be less against a 5th Generation Fighter. The F-15 exchange rate against the latter would be "extremely" poor. At least without escort from Allied F-22's and/or F-35's. Which, really defeats the purpose.........

3.) While, Japan has ordered ~ 147 F-35A's and F-35B's. Only half that number would likely be available at one time. In addition most would be needed for "Strike Missions". This would leave very few to aid the F-15J's in the Air Defense of Japan....

Honestly, post 2030 I surely wouldn't want any 4th Generation Fighter in the Air Defense Role. If, they had to face 5th Generation Stealth Fighters and Bombers. Even more advanced versions of the F-15 Eagle.....
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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 05:03

weasel1962 wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Much cheaper than new F-35A's. Yet, also far less capable.... :shock:


You could likely have 3-4 upgraded F-15J's for the price of single New F-35A. Yet, that single Lightning is worth 20+ Eagles.... :wink:

NOTE: This has been the plan for sometime. That is to upgrade half of the F-15J Fleet and retire the other half.


Source pls.


In newly inked deal, F-35 price falls to $78 million a copy

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/10 ... fhwCCUt6uM

Poland acquiring 32 F-35A's for $6.5 Billion. (~ $203 Million each) Yet, that also includes Spare, Training, Weapons, etc. etc.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... -35-fleet/

Japan to upgrade 98 F-15J's for $4.5 Billion. (~ $46 Million each) Which, doesn't include all of the "extras",

That's ~ 2-3 to 3-4 upgraded F-15J's vs a New F-35A. Depending on how you spin the numbers. Yet, feel free to do the math...... :wink:

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... e-package/


Also, Japan was never going to upgrade the Pre-MSIP F-15J's. Which, has been widely reported. The only delay was the selection of a replacement. Which, turned out to be the F-35A. (what a surprise) :wink:

Japan plans to replace 99 ageing F-15s with F-35A and F-35B fighters

Kosuke Takahashi, Tokyo - Jane's Defence Weekly

05 December 2018

Tokyo plans to replace 99 of the Japan Air Self-Defense Force’s (JASDF’s) 201 Boeing (Mitsubishi) F-15J/DJ Eagle multirole combat aircraft with F-35A and F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters, Jane’s has learned.

The aircraft set to be replaced are of the variant known locally as the F-15SJ, which is unsuitable for upgrades, according to a draft of the Japanese government’s new National Defense Program Guidelines (NDPG) obtained by Jane’s .

The plan was confirmed by former defence minister Itsunori Onodera, who said during a 5 December meeting of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) in Tokyo, “We concluded that it is preferable to replace 99 F-15 fighters [pre-MSIP], which cannot be modernized, with F35s.”

https://www.janes.com/article/85020/jap ... b-fighters
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weasel1962

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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 06:00

78 = 2*46 to 3*46. That's new math that I am not familiar with.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 06:58

weasel1962 wrote:78 = 2*46 to 3*46. That's new math that I am not familiar with.



Really??? $78 Million is for a F-35A in 2022-23 dollars and even then prices vary considerably between customers. Yet, I'll be happy to rephrase it and say 2-3 instead of 3-4.


I think most members realize I as talking in "general terms"....I said "like" 3-4 upgraded F-15J's for every new F-35A.
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weasel1962

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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 07:18

In my world, 78 is between 46 to 92 which is the equivalent of 1 to 2 upgrades.
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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 08:25

weasel1962 wrote:In my world, 78 is between 46 to 92 which is the equivalent of 1 to 2 upgrades.



If, that makes you feel better. Then you have my vote. 8)


Of course the case for upgraded F-15J's looks pretty poor then. As who would want ~98 upgraded F-15J's over ~ 45 New F-35A's????
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marsavian

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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 11:17

Corsair1963 wrote:
marsavian wrote:
Yet, that single Lightning is worth 20+ Eagles..


An F-35 can only do one interception sortie at a time just like an F-15. It's not worth 20+ Eagles in most scenarios. Japan also is buying F-35 in bulk so it doesn't have to choose either.



1.) A single F-35A can destroy many more targets than a F-15J+ even during a single sortie. (QRA, Air Superiority, Counter Air, Fighter Escort, etc. etc.)

2.) Against a 4th Generation Fighter the F-35 is indeed worth 20+ adversaries. Also, while the exchange rate would be less against a 5th Generation Fighter. The F-15 exchange rate against the latter would be "extremely" poor. At least without escort from Allied F-22's and/or F-35's. Which, really defeats the purpose.........

3.) While, Japan has ordered ~ 147 F-35A's and F-35B's. Only half that number would likely be available at one time. In addition most would be needed for "Strike Missions". This would leave very few to aid the F-15J's in the Air Defense of Japan....

Honestly, post 2030 I surely wouldn't want any 4th Generation Fighter in the Air Defense Role. If, they had to face 5th Generation Stealth Fighters and Bombers. Even more advanced versions of the F-15 Eagle.....
:doh:


1) Not if those targets are drones, missiles, bombers etc. Even if it was a top notch fighter the most F-35 could kill in a single sortie assuming a very optimistic amraam pK of 1 would be say 5 including one for cannon. The F-15 generally kicks other 4th gen fighters using its kinematics and big radar so you would assume it could kill at least one if not two in a sortie. Against a J-20 it might be outclassed but that rubber hasn't hit the road yet and we don't know how well DEWS would work defensively against a J-20 and how well an APG-82 could detect it.

2) Not in a single sortie.

3) Actually JASSM are being bought for these F-15 so you may have your intercept strike roles reversed.
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