SU-57: On hold for a decade

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

southerncross

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 131
  • Joined: 23 Jul 2019, 17:09

Unread post03 Sep 2019, 04:03

Corsair1963 wrote:You have proof that China is not developing a Naval Version of the J-31 or that the project has been canceled??? :doh:

No, not even suggesting it will be cancelled since I have no clue about that. But I admit I expected it to be selected as naval fighter, latest news may be BS, who knows.
Again you care to provide an official source that states India is seriously considering acquiring the Su-57 or Mig-35??? LOL :lmao:

The MiG-35 for sure is being officially considered. It is officially in the shortlist of fighters participating the tender and the Indian pilots officially flew it twice during last MAKS. About Su-57, I only know it has not been discarded officially. I don't know what will happen and when a decision will be taken, that may take time yet.
I made it clear in my comments I didn't believe the Su-57 would cost $50 Million let alone $35 Million. Are you stating it will be expensive??? :wink:

No, I just say that we are speculating because there is no data. But Russia cannot substitute Flankers costing 25 million by other planes costing 100, it would make no sense. I agree with milosh that it may be 50% more expensive than the Su-35 in worst case, but not more. Just gut feeling, don't take it seriously.
Absurd....then why does Russia have one of the largest militaries on the planet??? Why is it aggressive towards it neighbors??? Why did it invade Georgia and Crimea/Ukraine??? (etc. etc. etc.)

You expect us to believe that if NATO didn't exist. That Russia wouldn't have forcibly taken over a number of Eastern European Countries. (Baltic States, Georgia, Ukraine, etc.) :roll:

I know for a fact all of the above to be not only false or misleading but serving an agenda that puts our lifes in the harm's way for nothing more than egoistic goals. But it would be off-topic and flaming if I go here in detail, so let it stay like that please. Other users got upset already.
Online

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 5708
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post03 Sep 2019, 04:31

Russia has a large military and has been very aggressive towards it's neighbors. That is easily supportable....Nor, is it "misleading". :roll:
Offline

southerncross

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 131
  • Joined: 23 Jul 2019, 17:09

Unread post04 Sep 2019, 22:15

Suggestion: could we maybe leave the Su-57 thread to discuss the Su-57? Thanks for your understanding
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3440
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post05 Sep 2019, 14:24

IMO, the SU-57 will be too little, too late by the time it's deployed/mature as a weapons system (circa 2025, if not 2030).

Whether they get the new engine working or not, it's really irrelevant. Only a tiny, silver bullet force will be arrayed against literally thousands of F-35's, and around 150 F-22's. Hell, Japan's F-35 fleet will vastly outnumber Russia's SU-57's.. nevermind the United States.

So even if it's vastly superior to the F-35, it's still the modern day equivalent of the ME-262. It is however a nice try by a nation with little stealth expertise and the GDP of say, Australia. It's a beautiful bird, with high marks for ingenuity and growth potential. APA nearly creamed its shorts when it debuted, and if they were still around today I'm sure they'd argue it'd be the best bet for Australia, LOL.

We'll see how many they can actually afford.
Offline
User avatar

Lieven

F-16.net Webmaster

F-16.net Webmaster

  • Posts: 3655
  • Joined: 23 May 2003, 15:44

Unread post05 Sep 2019, 14:50

I moved the off-topic posts to http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=56073 and I banned Fidgetspinner.

And now back... :ontopic:
Offline

esq

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2018, 17:53

Unread post08 Sep 2019, 14:12

southerncross wrote:
milosh wrote:Russia didn't say a peep about the real price of the Su-57, those you mention were speculative figures from Kommersant. Almost everyone bases their estimations on the price of the Su-35 for the VKS, which is known to be below $30 million at the current exchanges... even if you don't believe it. That is what happens when you use your financial system to tank the currency of a country without external debt, you create a profit windfall on everything they export, boost their self reliance and make their internal production look ridiculously cheap compared to yours, literally like producing a Sukhoi for 20 or 25 million ans selling it for >80. Russia must be crying a river over the devaluation of the ruble.


You wrote so many bs statements on this topic, but this is pinacle of it.
Do you have any basic economical understanding of what actually in Russia with the economics or, at least, with the state-running businesses? Or what the problem when you got devaluation?
The main problem of our manufacturing base(anything, like producing or creating anything) is that really good workers and engineers is just running away from country BECAUSE of all this thing, that you mentioned with sugar on lips and satisfaction, and fancy-for-foreigners tactic. And most of the problem happening because of the stupidity of our goverment and all the stuff that have\had responsibility for this situation.

So, step-by-step:
1) That's one of the problem. If you do not understand - no official price on market. You can't be sure how much you will have until The Mother Russia will say. When the workers find the inability to asure their future they start to change their job, most of them go out of the goverment facilities to the privite market. The price, independently of what type of the aircraft it will be, should fulfill the requirment of the quality and workers qualification demand. If you demping the cost down, just for the sake of pseudo-economical "save the money\keep strong, americans is nearby" or for the foreigners, who don't want to procure the product, you create the situations when rare-one will stay at his workploace with the ability to change it.

So, what kind of problem create this step? Give me the answer.

2) That's the main problem! If you don't crate any new technologies, facilities, any kind of prooved know-how, you will get THIS KIND OF PRICE. You just won't create "Raptor-killer" or anyting compareable without create... idk, if not ground-breaking tech, but, at least, domestic and highly advanced devices. Instead, you will fall behind, that's it. There is no magic. Every US comparable project(like ATF, not JSF) is ending with high start price, a sh-t tons of science and research papers, astronomical cost of the new tools and production lines, debates and open testing. The result of it - big interest from the foreigners, good reputation and equally 0 problem in the science community where it can be called "fake" or "cheap device". That all give the rest for all in term of worriyng about science and overall situation in manufacturing in the US.

And that's is kinda funny cuz from this point you just can't pretending that you have some kind of "advantage", and that's where you find out yourself - in the magic russian media world. There you can be wherever you want, even in the 6th generation or two heads ahead. There you can arguing that's "no one know exectly wha't is going on in this project" but, instead of crushing russian media for a lack of information or Sukhoi for all this BS with E-version of the aircraft, or lurking for the basic info about russia manufacturing, you rather choose to jumping all over the forum and try to pretending that you have some kind of "good argumentation". In your eyes, this is a good position for defending that goverment-failed project, whose starting like a Armata and ending the same way, in the river called "Why the Russia need a 500 or 700 Su-57".

If you need more explanation - tell me, easy.
Offline

milosh

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 813
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
  • Location: Serbia, Belgrade

Unread post08 Sep 2019, 15:29

“Unimaginable acceleration to supersonic”: test pilot about the characteristics of the Su-57
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content ... Xj7eE.html

Su-57 cockpit (MiG-35 have very similar cockpit), is there any info about screen? Is it touch screen or not? I see it have buttons but I think Armata have TS screens with buttons as backup option.
Attachments
su57 cockpit.png
Offline

southerncross

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 131
  • Joined: 23 Jul 2019, 17:09

Unread post08 Sep 2019, 16:18

esq wrote:You wrote so many bs statements on this topic, but this is pinacle of it...

I will answer out of basic education but with otherwise zero interest in actually having a discussion with someone starting it in such an ill-mannered way, with such unhinged arguments and besides bad grammar. I get you are very critical of your government and firmly believe Western propaganda instead of Russian one... good luck with that.
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 86
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post08 Sep 2019, 18:01

milosh wrote:is there any info about screen? Is it touch screen or not?


Yes, it is touch screen. This is a glass cockpit from the Elkus company, but installed only on the Su-57E demonstration model. Currently, all the Su-57 flight prototypes are equipped with a different set. According to the developers, work is underway to natural-language user interface integration.
Offline

esq

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2018, 17:53

Unread post08 Sep 2019, 21:54

southerncross wrote:
esq wrote:You wrote so many bs statements on this topic, but this is pinacle of it...

I will answer out of basic education but with otherwise zero interest in actually having a discussion with someone starting it in such an ill-mannered way, with such unhinged arguments and besides bad grammar. I get you are very critical of your government and firmly believe Western propaganda instead of Russian one... good luck with that.


Oh god, please! :lol:
What a joke, rly
Grammar? I'm wrote this in just couple of minutes when scrolling down the topic. Haven't much time to be here.

You just scared, that's the whole thing.
Instead of mocking me in my "unhinged arguments" you turn to run away :lol: with...what is that!? Crying for being bullied!? Give me a break :bang:
It's pretty similar what i got on russian forums: if you out of arguments - pick on bad grammar and so on. Or russiaphobia, as example. Anything but answers.

I'm not just balling out "RUSSIA BAD": step-by-step proceed to the link where "propaganda" magically connect to yours statements. And give u a brief moment to give me an answer in two days. Maybe you still have some delusional vision on it.

So, give me a single mention where i said something from the BAD WESTERNS.
And yea, still wait for the answers in the post. Can't wait to beat the sh*t out of another "magical Russia and their magical weapons" kid. :lol:
Offline

milosh

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 813
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
  • Location: Serbia, Belgrade

Unread post09 Sep 2019, 20:28

PAK-FA 057 look really sleek, I hope it isn't just marketing (for delegations) but serials would be sleek as that:
Attachments
143473_58075947_139754_74660579_Su-57E MAKS 2019 6.jpg
Offline

sprstdlyscottsmn

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4481
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 01:24
  • Location: Phoenix, Az, USA

Unread post09 Sep 2019, 21:33

No argument here. It's a beauty.
"Spurts"

-Pilot
-Aerospace Engineer
-Army Medic
-FMS Systems Engineer
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7703
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post10 Sep 2019, 02:39

Too much wing for my taste.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3440
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post10 Sep 2019, 13:37

Gorgeous bird IMO, very sleek/eye catching.

Lots of wing, yes but blended wing/body. Will be easy to see from above or below, a relative sliver from the front/back/side. The Russians just love these heavy platforms, owing to their very large internal fuel capacity and need for range. The podded engines and tunnel combo seem to be a fixture now, appearing on all Russian designs (at least the ones that are operational) since the Mig-29.

I have no doubt it has mouth-watering acceleration, which is only going to get better if and when the new engines get here. The F-35 will always be playing catch up in that metric IMO, although it too will be getting new engines soon. Likely around the time the SU-57's second stage engine is ready.

It'll be an interesting comparison for sure..
Offline

charlielima223

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1045
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26

Unread post10 Sep 2019, 17:08

Image

If there is one thing that I have to applaud Russia for, its the amount of marketing Russia is pouring into the PAKFA. Yes the F-35 has had plenty of marketing in the beginning but I've never seen such a grandiose display for the F-35.

Good looking bird but to me it looks like they took a Flanker and squished it. If I were in charge of a NATO designation for this plane I would call it the "flapjack"
PreviousNext

Return to Modern Military Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests