SU-57: On hold for a decade

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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project458

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 04:36

Very Bad news for haters and day dreamers here


Russia and India sign FGFA contract


https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3050779


Western stupid media should pick it up soon.
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popcorn

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 04:48

More like bad news for India if true. :devil:
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Corsair1963

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 05:22

project458 wrote:Very Bad news for haters and day dreamers here


Russia and India sign FGFA contract


https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3050779


Western stupid media should pick it up soon.



Absurd India hasn't sign any such "contract". Nor, has it "returned" to the Su-57... :doh:
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project458

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 05:33

Corsair1963 wrote:
project458 wrote:Very Bad news for haters and day dreamers here


Russia and India sign FGFA contract


https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3050779


Western stupid media should pick it up soon.



Absurd India hasn't sign any such "contract". Nor, has it "returned" to the Su-57... :doh:



Like, I said we will know more details later, but as for now start burying the idea of a Indian F-35 :mrgreen:
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popcorn

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 05:48

project458 wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
project458 wrote:Very Bad news for haters and day dreamers here


Russia and India sign FGFA contract


https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3050779


Western stupid media should pick it up soon.



Absurd India hasn't sign any such "contract". Nor, has it "returned" to the Su-57... :doh:




Like, I said we will know more details later, but as for now start burying the idea of a Indian F-35 :mrgreen:


OK will be happy to bury it.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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knowan

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 09:48

project458 wrote:Very Bad news for haters and day dreamers here


Russia and India sign FGFA contract


https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3050779


Western stupid media should pick it up soon.


Funny how Russian fanboys continue to demonstrate their bias by taking any claims from Russia at face value.

For people capable of critically thinking, such a claim requires confirmation from both parties, and there hasn't been a peep about it from India.
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gideonic

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 10:39

And this news magically appears near the same time that Turkish Defense Minister is visiting Russia. Wouldn't be surprised at all if they're upselling their Su-57's to them
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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 13:24

The turks would go J-20 over Su-57. They are aligning politically with China in One Road One Belt.
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project458

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 14:09

knowan wrote:
project458 wrote:Very Bad news for haters and day dreamers here


Russia and India sign FGFA contract


https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3050779


Western stupid media should pick it up soon.


Funny how Russian fanboys continue to demonstrate their bias by taking any claims from Russia at face value.

For people capable of critically thinking, such a claim requires confirmation from both parties, and there hasn't been a peep about it from India.



Hilarious, by the same logic than F-35 fanboys should of waited for the same confirmation from the Russia before celebrating the "India pullout from Su-57", a confirmation that never happened, in fact now we are hearing the complete opposite.
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knowan

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 15:06

project458 wrote:
knowan wrote:
project458 wrote:Very Bad news for haters and day dreamers here


Russia and India sign FGFA contract


https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3050779


Western stupid media should pick it up soon.


Funny how Russian fanboys continue to demonstrate their bias by taking any claims from Russia at face value.

For people capable of critically thinking, such a claim requires confirmation from both parties, and there hasn't been a peep about it from India.



Hilarious, by the same logic than F-35 fanboys should of waited for the same confirmation from the Russia before celebrating the "India pullout from Su-57", a confirmation that never happened, in fact now we are hearing the complete opposite.


Those are different claims with different standards. One is a customer saying they no longer want to purchase a product, another is a seller saying a customer still wants to purchase a product in direct contradiction of earlier news.

When a claim contradicts earlier information, then more confirmation is required. And because India is the customer, only their claims are worth attention.

And India cancelling their participation was confirmed by Russia cancelling further production after the initial 12.
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marsavian

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 15:22

The Indians are still prepared to buy the Su-57 but just as a finished product because they are not prepared to co-develop it for billions any more. So produce the final initial production version with new engines and you might have a sale in 5 years.
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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 15:54

project458 wrote: ... Lazarus! Come forth! ...


... Lazarus! Come 4th! ...

FIFY

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project458

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 17:22

knowan wrote:
project458 wrote:Very Bad news for haters and day dreamers here


And India cancelling their participation was confirmed by Russia cancelling further production after the initial 12.


What? First India Never officially cancelled anything, there was no official confirmation from their Mod or air force, only thing was b.S media outlets siting anonymous sources, and western news picked up and ran it and you believed it, hook line and sinker. Second Russia didn't canceld anything either, all it said is that it only start mass production when the final engines are ready, 3 or 4 years give or take, and some how that translates to the Su-57 being cancelled for you? :bang:
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knowan

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 18:02

project458 wrote:What? First India Never officially cancelled anything, there was no official confirmation from their Mod or air force, only thing was b.S media outlets siting anonymous sources, and western news picked up and ran it and you believed it, hook line and sinker.


As quoted by lrrpf52 above:
It was recently reported that Russia and India were planning to jointly design a fifth-generation fighter jet.

But the Russian official revealed the proposals are on hold, telling Sputnik: "It is frozen for now. "But we hope that we will return to the dialogue on the fifth-generation fighter."


So on one hand you have UAC CEO saying it is still going to be exported, on the other hand you have the Russian official in charge Russian arms exports saying it isn't, along with a bunch of news articles out of India saying they don't want the plane anymore and no reports from India indicating they've changed their mind and want the plane again.

Weight of evidence suggests the UAC CEO is bullshitting.


project458 wrote:Second Russia didn't cancelled anything either, all it said is that it only start mass production when the final engines are ready, 3 or 4 years give or take, and some how thats translates to the Su-57 being cancelled for you? :bang:


A healthy dose of pessimism is recommended when assessing any military procurement program, but especially so with any Russian program, as theirs have a strong history of failure since the fall of the USSR.

Highly advanced military technology programs like the Su-57 do not resume easily after pauses due to lost development and manufacturing inertia, and 3-4 years for the engines to be ready is highly optimistic.
It was well known that Indian financing would be near essential to the budget of the PAK FA program when it began, and with the worsening of the Russian financial situation since the beginning of the program combined with the loss of the Indian funding, it is fair to conclude the 'pause' in production will very likely be permanent.
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tphuang

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Unread post21 Aug 2018, 18:35

Let's see, so the Russians continuously make overly optimistic statements about when Su-57 will go into service, how many they will procure and status of Indian participation in the program. And everytime this happens, the timeline gets dragged out longer for the next announcement and Indian's participation gets weaker. And now, people still given credibility to their public statements?
Remember when the Russians said they will have 10 in service by 2015 and 60 by 2020?
http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/econ ... -sukhoi-0/
And now there is an article from Russia side claiming that India will still stick with their project and that's somehow credible? Until India puts their pen on the program or even put their pen on an order, I would find it hard to believe they ever field Su-57. If they were looking at things without tainted glasses, they would see a Russian aerospace industry incapable of building a true fifth generation aircraft by Western fighter and one that could barely even put a 5th generation fighter jet by Russian standard into production. The construction quality and workmanship on Russian aircraft have always been behind the West and the gap has only gotten exponentially larger in the past 25 years. Just looking at the Su-57, I really can't imagine the Sukhoi production lines have gotten much better from the flanker production lines. There is just no way you could mass produce and maintain a stealth aircraft with this little regard toward stealth even in development stage

The Indians must have seen all of this from up close. They would have to be out of their mind to continue investing in this project unless they get full ToT that will truly aid with the MCA project. If I were India, I'd fully turn toward Western countries. Get on the wait list on F-35, negotiation ToT on Rafale and seek French help in dvelopment of MCA. If India wants to be a true world power, it needs to build up its own defense industry and stay commited to the process. Continously giving money to a country that is incapable of developing anything new for 25 years is insanity. Unless of course you think Su-35 counts as something new.

As for S-400, do they seriously think buying the only foreign SAM platform that China has full access to is a good idea?
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