Russia-Ukraine War 2022

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hornetfinn

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Unread post03 Aug 2022, 09:03

laos wrote:I wonder if France still sells its thermal imaging arrays to Belarus and then they go to Russia ? Apparently they were still selling in 2020. Can Russia by itself produce thermal imagers without French components ?


At least according to French defence minister:
https://twitter.com/HerveGrandjean/status/1503480497237901317?s=20&t=e_IkYQ9KoWe9DdmDGg8IaA

"No new contracts have been made with Russia since 2014. No deliveries have been made to Russia since the beginning of the war in Ukraine."


AFAIK the same applies to Belarus also. Russia or Belarus don't have real capability to produce the important thermal imaging components (mainly the detector and signal processor) themselves and these were supplied from France. Russia and Belarus simply assembled the components with some minor parts possibly being local. Signal processor could be basically any DSP but they probably can't import these or only some very basic ones which probably can't handle the amount of data required. I bet Russian tanks won't have thermal imaging sights after they run out of their stored spare parts unless the sanctions are lifted. But that will likely take some years to happen, so won't affect this war. But Russia has already lost a rather large percentage of tanks and helos that carried those thermal imaging systems.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post03 Aug 2022, 09:44

spad_s.xiii wrote:Regarding M270 and HIMARS launched rockets and missiles, I read that Boeing and Saab says that their GLSDB is ready for production and that it should be quite cheap. I don't know what "production ready" means in this case and I don't think that they have any customers, but it looks like a nice system consisting of mainly standard components.


I agree that GLSDB seem very interesting and promising system. It seems like it could be very useful in some situations but it would be interesting to know how it would compare to GMLRS-ER as they both have very similar range and warhead size. I think both have some advantages and disadvantages. Like GLSDB has laser guided variant available and I bet StormBreaker with much more capable seeker options could also be used with some development instead of GBU-39 variants against mobile and semi-mobile targets. I could see those being useful against things like river crossings, helicopter landing operations or naval landing operations. Basically in situations that we have seen in Ukraine and could become reality in Taiwan for example some day. South Korea also comes to mind where those capabilities could become useful. I wonder how easily SDBs could be assembled to GLSDBs and GLSDBs back to air-launched SDBs? If easy, it'd be somewhat like NASAMS which use the exact same missiles as fighter aircraft which helps with costs and increases flexibility.
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weasel1962

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Unread post03 Aug 2022, 10:43

Cost-wise GMLRS had a unit cost roughly $100k. Assume that GMLRS-ER will cost slightly more than GMLRS. GBU-53 is roughly double that but was trying to get to $115k unit cost (don't think they have hit that yet). The airlaunched munition has a range of ~40nm (70km) so to get to 150km, they'd use an M26 rocket body. M26 is built by LM so why would LM sell M26 rocket bodies to Boeing so that GLSDB takes away business from LM's lucrative GMLRS builds?
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hornetfinn

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Unread post03 Aug 2022, 11:55

I think GMLRS-ER costs pretty much the same as "regular" GMLRS rockets. Finland has bought both in recent years (2015 for regular ones and 2021 GMLRS-ER versions) and according to their DSCA notifications, unit costs are almost the same.

I think it would be Nammo which would provide the rocket motors for GLSDB if anybody actually ordered it:
https://www.saab.com/newsroom/press-releases/2021/saab-expands-cooperation-within-glsdb-campaign

They probably have used existing rocket motors for prototypes and tests, but I bet Nammo, Roxel or Aerojet Rocketdyne could quite easily provide suitable rocket motors for them. Actually it's Aerojet Rocketdyne that produces the rocket motors for GMLRS: https://www.rocket.com/defense/tactical-missiles/gmlrs

So I don't think rocket motors would be a serious problem. But does GLSDB offer enough advantages against GMLRS-ER at reasonable costs to make sense for the customers? GMLRS-ER is already available today and has equally long range and accuracy. So while GLSDB would have advantages, does it make sense to launch them from MLRS systems when aircraft can already launch them? Of course countries like Ukraine would find a lot of utility for GLSDB as they don't have aircraft that could use them. Maybe Boeing and Saab should consider putting together some small number of GLSDBs and send them to field tests in Ukraine... :devil:
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hornetfinn

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Unread post03 Aug 2022, 12:46

4 HIMARS launchers in action in Ukraine with 24 GMLRS rockets launched during daytime:



Pretty impressive stuff and interesting that they are doing launching during daytime when they are easier to see from the air (drones, aircraft, satellites). I bet the target was something rather important due to launching all those 24 GMLRS rockets in one go.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post04 Aug 2022, 05:04

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Unread post04 Aug 2022, 07:53

That HIMARS/GMLRS footage shows some interesting things like GMLRS rockets maneuvering right after launch and ascending almost vertically. They also seem to fly rather close to each other but I doubt 24 rockets would go against the same target or even target arrea. So they likely separate at some point to go after each target with much smaller number of rockets. I'd say that this is a feature to make it almost impossible to determine the launch point(s) or the exact number of rockets launched during the ascending phase of the flight. So counterbattery fire would be useless trying to calculate launch points from flight path data. Close grouping would make it very difficult for radars to separate radar echoes from each other further making tracking more difficult further making things more difficult for the enemy. I think Russia could only use UAVs and some special forces to try hunt those HIMARS's but that would require a huge number of stealthy long range UAVs and they will likely not be able to do anything against them.
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viperzerof-2

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Unread post04 Aug 2022, 13:19

https://mobile.twitter.com/uaweapons/st ... xneUJ_9eLg


Still going! Amazing what they have managed with 30-40 year old aircraft.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post04 Aug 2022, 14:28

Russian source mourned the death of Colonel Olga Kachura, call sign Korsa, the commander of the rocket artillery division of the DPR. She was featured in a recent documentary of RT. (Not a good omen.)

https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2022- ... PWdT9.html

https://en.topwar.ru/199893-za-muzhestv ... ertno.html

Originally a policewoman, she has been fighting for DPR since the very beginning. In January 2022, a court in Ukraine sentenced her in absentia to 12 years in prison. Reportedly Putin has awarded her the Hero of Russia posthumously for her courage and heroism.
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spad_s.xiii

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Unread post04 Aug 2022, 15:10

weasel1962 wrote:Cost-wise GMLRS had a unit cost roughly $100k. Assume that GMLRS-ER will cost slightly more than GMLRS. GBU-53 is roughly double that but was trying to get to $115k unit cost (don't think they have hit that yet). The airlaunched munition has a range of ~40nm (70km) so to get to 150km, they'd use an M26 rocket body. M26 is built by LM so why would LM sell M26 rocket bodies to Boeing so that GLSDB takes away business from LM's lucrative GMLRS builds?

I think they are using GBU-39 for the GLSDB, which is much cheaper.

It is not uncommon to sell components to your competitors in this business, as long as you get a good profit. Otherwise they may develop the component themselves, or choose someone else and then you get nothing.
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Unread post05 Aug 2022, 02:10

hornetfinn wrote:That HIMARS/GMLRS footage shows some interesting things like GMLRS rockets maneuvering right after launch and ascending almost vertically. They also seem to fly rather close to each other but I doubt 24 rockets would go against the same target or even target arrea. So they likely separate at some point to go after each target with much smaller number of rockets. I'd say that this is a feature to make it almost impossible to determine the launch point(s) or the exact number of rockets launched during the ascending phase of the flight. So counterbattery fire would be useless trying to calculate launch points from flight path data. Close grouping would make it very difficult for radars to separate radar echoes from each other further making tracking more difficult further making things more difficult for the enemy. I think Russia could only use UAVs and some special forces to try hunt those HIMARS's but that would require a huge number of stealthy long range UAVs and they will likely not be able to do anything against them.

Our counter-battery only needs a single launch to get a firing solution. One big advantage of a rapid fire like you describe is you can fire a full load and start moving before return fire hits your location.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post05 Aug 2022, 11:48

What are those Russians doing in this video? Driving a dump truck over a mine intentionally? What is the use of the hammer? How could the driver expect to survive the blast? Don't understand what are they talking about, except the 'slava' stuff. Seems very confident about what they are doing.

https://video.weibo.com/show?fid=1034:4798942786027523
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Unread post05 Aug 2022, 15:29

zhangmdev wrote:What are those Russians doing in this video? Driving a dump truck over a mine intentionally? What is the use of the hammer? How could the driver expect to survive the blast? Don't understand what are they talking about, except the 'slava' stuff. Seems very confident about what they are doing.

https://video.weibo.com/show?fid=1034:4798942786027523


Russian truck is attempted to be used for kamikaze attack(see the stick on the gas), but runs into minefields with TM-62.
The lorry was filled with 152mm grenades, TNT and an igniter. Interesting that they are trying a this to try to break through a fortified support point. It may well indicate that there is slightly less artillery, engineer support and tanks available than one might wish.
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Unread post06 Aug 2022, 01:20

M320 and pike make for pretty pyrotechnics from what I hear. Seem to punch holes in T72's real nice. These ain't your parents Oldsmobiles.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post06 Aug 2022, 07:51

The 'I will not sacrifice myself. I will get out in time' interpretation makes sense. But it also makes no sense. The ground is very soft. The heavy truck could barely pass the ditch before the mine hit. There is little chance it would run straight without a man behind the wheel. Waste of a truck and load of ammo.

And

A lot chattering about the upcoming Russian offensive around Kherson and Zaporizhzhya. Even picked up by the MSM.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war- ... s-12666633

The territory in the south was captured in the initial surprising phase of the war. The Z-force hasn't avdanced since. Does it have any chance AFTER losing ten of thousands of men and thousands of vehicles?
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