Rafale Vs EF Typhoon

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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oldiaf

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Unread post14 Sep 2015, 10:19

How do you compare these 2 great aircrafts in term of both AA and AG fighting capabilities in different missions and battle scenarios ? Avionics , armament .. Etc
Thanks in advance
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deltasierracharlie

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Unread post31 Dec 2021, 03:55

https://hushkit.net/2021/12/29/i-took-the-typhoon-to-war-interview-with-wing-commander-raf-mike-sutton/
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A Rafale pilot I interviewed said ‘Typhoon was a joke’ – what is your response to his view?

Image

There’s nothing like the confidence of a French fighter pilot! The Rafale and Typhoon are from a similar era, but backed by four nations and with five export customers the Typhoon has better growth potential. As the Boss of 1 Squadron we always had a French Rafale pilot on exchange, so I had a real insight into both platforms. For the air-to-air missions, an AESA equipped Typhoon with METEOR, AMRAAM-D and ASRAAM packs a powerful punch with the Helmet Mounted Sight and IRST (called PIRATE).

The Typhoon Force has also received upgraded Paveway 4 (penetrating warhead and moving target capability), which is a great weapon for Close Air Support in combination with Brimstone, which can also be used against fast inshore attack craft. For longer-range strikes, Storm Shadow and SPEAR 3 (the small, long-range, cruise missile) offer significant stand-off, precision, low collateral damage and electronic warfare capabilities. The Litening 5 targeting pods will offer high-definition imagery and a reconnaissance capability. And of course, there is the 27-mm cannon that I have fired in anger. With that weapon load-out you can take on any mission set. So my response to the French pilot, is that given the choice I would take the Typhoon every time.
...
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viperzerof-2

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Unread post04 Feb 2022, 03:17

I think the Eurofighter is a lot like the F-15, at lower altitudes it’s not not necessarily anything special. It’s got a very good thrust to weight, but not one that really drastically stands out among 4th gen aircraft (though better then the Rafale). It’s high and fast that the Eurofighter likely shines. It was optimized for maneuvering at supersonic speeds, so much so that the AMK kit was developed to improve other aspects. The German requirement which sort of took over the project was for a super sonic BVR platform that would also be able to fight as a EM fighter in the chaotic furball expected to form in a Cold War gone hot. The Eurofighter was optimized for this and this is partially along with under investment it’s had trouble becoming a multirole.

The Rafale was designed more as a multirole and needed to be small enough a version for French carriers could be developed. It’s a very agile fighter with close coupled canards, though it’s mobility does not seem that stand out compared to American teen series aircraft of its size class. The Rafale has very good range and payload for its size, this seems an import reason for its late life success in the export market.

Both aircraft use RCS reduction, it’s unclear to what extent. The Rafale was redesigned from the Rafale A which supposedly already had a lower (claimed) RCS then the F-16. Their likely close enough for it not to matter. Rafale has always had a radar with LPI in mind, how much it matters is unclear. I remember reading raptor pilots had no trouble detecting emissions from the RBE2 PESA.

Both aircraft take a fairly different approach to radar. The Eurofighter radar is often claimed to be the best mechanical scan radar designed (no love for apg-71? Apg-63(v)1?) it almost certainly has longer detection range. The RBE2 is rather curious, it’s the only western PESA radar on a fighter, combining the features of several different older French radars. Supposedly the RBE2 pesa is in the same range class but slightly inferior to the RDY on the Mirage 2000c-5. It’s also apparently lacking beam interweave but can very rapidly change modes. The Rafale got an AESA upgrade in 2013 which increased range 50% but it was considered inferior at the time to the apg-80 used by the UAE F-16 block 60. The Eurofighter has only recently gotten an ARSA radar which is very large and seemingly very powerful but not yet widely deployed. Both aircraft use IRST that are likely very good but it would be difficult to compare them. The 2008 Swiss evaluation rated the RBE2 as providing better overall situational awareness onsite of it having less range.

EW wise the Rafale electronic warfare system is well known and was key to its success in Libya in 2011, operating without SEAD escort while the Eurofighter couldn’t do much other then escort allied fighters. The British have invested quite a bit in multirolization of the Typhoon but it is unclear how successful this has been.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post08 Feb 2022, 12:33

viperzerof-2 wrote:Both aircraft use RCS reduction, it’s unclear to what extent. The Rafale was redesigned from the Rafale A which supposedly already had a lower (claimed) RCS then the F-16. Their likely close enough for it not to matter. Rafale has always had a radar with LPI in mind, how much it matters is unclear. I remember reading raptor pilots had no trouble detecting emissions from the RBE2 PESA.

Both aircraft take a fairly different approach to radar. The Eurofighter radar is often claimed to be the best mechanical scan radar designed (no love for apg-71? Apg-63(v)1?) it almost certainly has longer detection range. The RBE2 is rather curious, it’s the only western PESA radar on a fighter, combining the features of several different older French radars. Supposedly the RBE2 pesa is in the same range class but slightly inferior to the RDY on the Mirage 2000c-5. It’s also apparently lacking beam interweave but can very rapidly change modes. The Rafale got an AESA upgrade in 2013 which increased range 50% but it was considered inferior at the time to the apg-80 used by the UAE F-16 block 60. The Eurofighter has only recently gotten an ARSA radar which is very large and seemingly very powerful but not yet widely deployed. Both aircraft use IRST that are likely very good but it would be difficult to compare them. The 2008 Swiss evaluation rated the RBE2 as providing better overall situational awareness onsite of it having less range.


RBE2/PESA definitely always had LPI in mind as do pretty much all even remotely modern military radars. PESA design itself was one such feature as it allows quick and random beam steering and they can also vary the beam shape. Another advantage is ability to quickly switch between modes (even from pulse to pulse) All those are pretty much impossible to do with MSA radars used in most other fighters when Rafale was designed and introduced. PESA is not superior in every way to MSA radars because they are very similar except for the antenna system. Both have similarly limited frequency range and PESA radars also have additional losses due to phase shifters. PESA radars also have similarly limited waveform flexibility as MSA radars. So PESA radars generally have better LPI features than similar MSA radars but still far from what AESA radars can achieve. I think EF Typhoon with MSA radar is easier to detect from radar emissions than Rafale with RBE2/PESA. However RBE2/AESA is likely significantly better than RBE2/PESA

I have no trouble believing that later upgraded variants of RDY radar can outrange RBE2/PESA but naturally there are other things besides range when it comes to radars. I think the French didn't bother upgrading RBE2/PESA much when they had the AESA version available pretty quickly. RBE2/PESA likely has superior LPI and ECCM features along with larger number of tracked targets due to PESA design. Captor-M radar in Eurofighter also has longer max range than RBE2/PESA because it has larger antenna and likely more powerful transmitter. However RBE2/AESA likely is significantly better than any of those other radars even though it's smaller than Captor-M radars. Naturally Eurofighter is getting AESA versions which likely outrange RBE2/AESA but likely need time to mature to same level otherwise.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post09 Feb 2022, 03:14

viperzerof-2 wrote:I think the Eurofighter is a lot like the F-15, at lower altitudes it’s not not necessarily anything special. It’s got a very good thrust to weight, but not one that really drastically stands out among 4th gen aircraft (though better then the Rafale). It’s high and fast that the Eurofighter likely shines. It was optimized for maneuvering at supersonic speeds, so much so that the AMK kit was developed to improve other aspects. The German requirement which sort of took over the project was for a super sonic BVR platform that would also be able to fight as a EM fighter in the chaotic furball expected to form in a Cold War gone hot. The Eurofighter was optimized for this and this is partially along with under investment it’s had trouble becoming a multirole.

The Rafale was designed more as a multirole and needed to be small enough a version for French carriers could be developed. It’s a very agile fighter with close coupled canards, though it’s mobility does not seem that stand out compared to American teen series aircraft of its size class. The Rafale has very good range and payload for its size, this seems an import reason for its late life success in the export market.

Both aircraft use RCS reduction, it’s unclear to what extent. The Rafale was redesigned from the Rafale A which supposedly already had a lower (claimed) RCS then the F-16. Their likely close enough for it not to matter. Rafale has always had a radar with LPI in mind, how much it matters is unclear. I remember reading raptor pilots had no trouble detecting emissions from the RBE2 PESA.

Both aircraft take a fairly different approach to radar. The Eurofighter radar is often claimed to be the best mechanical scan radar designed (no love for apg-71? Apg-63(v)1?) it almost certainly has longer detection range. The RBE2 is rather curious, it’s the only western PESA radar on a fighter, combining the features of several different older French radars. Supposedly the RBE2 pesa is in the same range class but slightly inferior to the RDY on the Mirage 2000c-5. It’s also apparently lacking beam interweave but can very rapidly change modes. The Rafale got an AESA upgrade in 2013 which increased range 50% but it was considered inferior at the time to the apg-80 used by the UAE F-16 block 60. The Eurofighter has only recently gotten an ARSA radar which is very large and seemingly very powerful but not yet widely deployed. Both aircraft use IRST that are likely very good but it would be difficult to compare them. The 2008 Swiss evaluation rated the RBE2 as providing better overall situational awareness onsite of it having less range.

EW wise the Rafale electronic warfare system is well known and was key to its success in Libya in 2011, operating without SEAD escort while the Eurofighter couldn’t do much other then escort allied fighters. The British have invested quite a bit in multirolization of the Typhoon but it is unclear how successful this has been.



Well said... :D

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