F-104 Starfighter / Zipper

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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JR007

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Unread post05 Feb 2004, 03:42

More Zipper quotes. These will be coming for days and days...

Lockheed Vice President C. L. (Kelly) Johnson, who talked with combat pilots in Korea, learned they wanted an airplane to fly higher and faster than the enemy, with easy field maintainability. "The F-104 met those needs," he said. "Its outstanding performance is still not fully appreciated. It still has performance the engine can't exploit."

Here's a statement to Lockheed from Capt. Charles E. Tofferi, 479th Tactical Fighter Wing, who flew his F-104C to the 1962 William Tell Fighter Weapons Meet title: "Thank you, one and all, for the best airplane I've ever flown." He said the F-104 "really shines" in maintenance capability, "so simple to maintain, people with little experience can do it."
Burning debris never reversed on anyone…

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elp

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Unread post05 Feb 2004, 03:43

Hey thanks. Seems like it would be useful.
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SwedgeII

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Unread post06 Feb 2004, 20:23

Dude you forgot the coolest thing about the 104s That Sound of the J-79 IGVs repositioning on a cold day. that Howl was the coolest sound!!! of course F-4s did it too.. L
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JR007

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Unread post08 Feb 2004, 04:25

Let's see if I can post a sound file...
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JR007

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Unread post09 Feb 2004, 01:37

OK, I couldn't post the sound, user error! So here is a couple of pics.

Gums,

You talked about retracting the nose gear on the Voodoo, we have the same speed issue with the F-104, she just accelerates so darn fast! You can see when the guys were sucking the gear up in the 2-ship TO. Sharkbait already has his gear up, Comrade's main gear doors are closing.

The F-104 on the ground is sitting in Wright Patt, Sharkbait flew her while getting 100 missions in the Zipper in Nam.
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F104C-Co-SharkbaitsVietnamRide.jpg
F104-ComradeSharkbait2ShipTO-5.jpg
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elp

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Unread post09 Feb 2004, 02:20

What kind of flying restrictions ( if any ) were associated with the refueling probe?
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JR007

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Unread post10 Feb 2004, 05:09

Elp,

I'm trying to find someone with an F-104C T.O. Will advise...

Elp,

One of the Starfighter Crew Chiefs had on old "C" T.O., he said it
was Mach 1.75 for the "C" and "D" with the probe. Without the probe, CF, G, or deprobed "C" it's Mach 1.8 with the old tip tanks, 2.0 with the new tips, 2.2 without tips, or 750 kts. The "S" can go faster, due to the stronger engine. It doesn't melt as fast!
Last edited by JR007 on 10 Feb 2004, 05:58, edited 1 time in total.
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JR007

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Unread post10 Feb 2004, 05:28

A few pics of the Zipper. The kid is Sharkbait, in 1961 after setting a couple of squadron records. Then in 2001, take a look at the “g” meter. Not bad for 65 years old!
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Sharkbait-F104C-Newspaper.jpg
Sharkbait-F104C-NewspaperColor.jpg
Sharkbait-Grin-7-5g.jpg
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Phoenix

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Unread post10 Feb 2004, 11:50

I can't make out the writing very well... did he climb to 32,000 ft. or 92,000 ft.? Though I can't imagine what a kite would be at 92,000 ft. .... heck most planes don't go up there, but....
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elp

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Unread post10 Feb 2004, 21:23

Thanks for the info J.R. !
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JR007

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Unread post11 Feb 2004, 01:20

Phoenix,

It was 92,000 feet and Mach 2.5, it's in the Sqd's books too.

The kite was a joke as "Peanuts" comic strip had lost a kite...
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Lawman

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Unread post18 Feb 2004, 20:34

Anybody remember the F8-U3 Super Crusader.

No it wouldnt go as high as the Zipper, but Mach 2.6 back in the early 60's and it was agile too. Fastest plane the Navy has ever operated.
Drew
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JR007

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Unread post19 Feb 2004, 03:44

The F-8 was fast, two of my friends flew them. Funny, one's got two MIG kills in an F-105 but ended flying single holes in the F-8!

Here's a quote from a Zipper driver about the F-8...

“…The RF-101 and the F-8 were not as fast on the deck as the F104, Thud drivers all talk about how fast their jet would go on the deck, but the proof is in the record (s) and the F104 has it. I think the F-111, and MiG23 could be considered very swift, but who has the record? I could be proven wrong, but I don’t believe the record will be beaten with current foreseeable technology.

I have seen 875 KTS IAS below 10,000 feet and I have also been in a two seater “F104D” at the Rosemond Range at Cannon AFB in which I had the D.O. in the front seat, we were indicating Mach 1.35 …which at the time was faster than the record held by the Phantom. Cheers!! Sharkbait”.
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JR007

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Unread post19 Feb 2004, 04:00

OK folks, the webpage is getting updated with this years schedule and a one minute movie.

www.Starfighters.net

Thanks to F-16.net for adding the address to their links page.

Gums, hope you can make it down to Mac Dill!

Anyone else, show up and see how a 1950’s Mach 2+ Fighter operates! We can always use crew help.

Blue Skies,

JR
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F104-ComradeSharkbaitAd.jpg
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Lawman

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Unread post19 Feb 2004, 07:35

I just like the fact that they actually stopped at Mach 2.6 because the windscreen became opaque and started to break down.

The pilots testing it actually were qouted with stating the plane would probably make it to Mach 3, based on the acceleration they were still getting at Mach 2.6. But with more than 30K lbs of thrust thats not to out of the question in that airframe.
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