F-16.net

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A Rafale pilot I interviewed said ‘Typhoon was a joke’ – what is your response to his view?



There’s nothing like the confidence of a French fighter pilot! The Rafale and Typhoon are from a similar era, but backed by four nations and with five export customers the Typhoon has better growth potential. As the Boss of 1 Squadron we always had a French Rafale pilot on exchange, so I had a real insight into both platforms. For the air-to-air missions, an AESA equipped Typhoon with METEOR, AMRAAM-D and ASRAAM packs a powerful punch with the Helmet Mounted Sight and IRST (called PIRATE).

The Typhoon Force has also received upgraded Paveway 4 (penetrating warhead and moving target capability), which is a great weapon for Close Air Support in combination with Brimstone, which can also be used against fast inshore attack craft. For longer-range strikes, Storm Shadow and SPEAR 3 (the small, long-range, cruise missile) offer significant stand-off, precision, low collateral damage and electronic warfare capabilities. The Litening 5 targeting pods will offer high-definition imagery and a reconnaissance capability. And of course, there is the 27-mm cannon that I have fired in anger. With that weapon load-out you can take on any mission set. So my response to the French pilot, is that given the choice I would take the Typhoon every time.
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viperzerof-2 wrote:Both aircraft use RCS reduction, it’s unclear to what extent. The Rafale was redesigned from the Rafale A which supposedly already had a lower (claimed) RCS then the F-16. Their likely close enough for it not to matter. Rafale has always had a radar with LPI in mind, how much it matters is unclear. I remember reading raptor pilots had no trouble detecting emissions from the RBE2 PESA.

Both aircraft take a fairly different approach to radar. The Eurofighter radar is often claimed to be the best mechanical scan radar designed (no love for apg-71? Apg-63(v)1?) it almost certainly has longer detection range. The RBE2 is rather curious, it’s the only western PESA radar on a fighter, combining the features of several different older French radars. Supposedly the RBE2 pesa is in the same range class but slightly inferior to the RDY on the Mirage 2000c-5. It’s also apparently lacking beam interweave but can very rapidly change modes. The Rafale got an AESA upgrade in 2013 which increased range 50% but it was considered inferior at the time to the apg-80 used by the UAE F-16 block 60. The Eurofighter has only recently gotten an ARSA radar which is very large and seemingly very powerful but not yet widely deployed. Both aircraft use IRST that are likely very good but it would be difficult to compare them. The 2008 Swiss evaluation rated the RBE2 as providing better overall situational awareness onsite of it having less range.

viperzerof-2 wrote:I think the Eurofighter is a lot like the F-15, at lower altitudes it’s not not necessarily anything special. It’s got a very good thrust to weight, but not one that really drastically stands out among 4th gen aircraft (though better then the Rafale). It’s high and fast that the Eurofighter likely shines. It was optimized for maneuvering at supersonic speeds, so much so that the AMK kit was developed to improve other aspects. The German requirement which sort of took over the project was for a super sonic BVR platform that would also be able to fight as a EM fighter in the chaotic furball expected to form in a Cold War gone hot. The Eurofighter was optimized for this and this is partially along with under investment it’s had trouble becoming a multirole.

The Rafale was designed more as a multirole and needed to be small enough a version for French carriers could be developed. It’s a very agile fighter with close coupled canards, though it’s mobility does not seem that stand out compared to American teen series aircraft of its size class. The Rafale has very good range and payload for its size, this seems an import reason for its late life success in the export market.

Both aircraft use RCS reduction, it’s unclear to what extent. The Rafale was redesigned from the Rafale A which supposedly already had a lower (claimed) RCS then the F-16. Their likely close enough for it not to matter. Rafale has always had a radar with LPI in mind, how much it matters is unclear. I remember reading raptor pilots had no trouble detecting emissions from the RBE2 PESA.

Both aircraft take a fairly different approach to radar. The Eurofighter radar is often claimed to be the best mechanical scan radar designed (no love for apg-71? Apg-63(v)1?) it almost certainly has longer detection range. The RBE2 is rather curious, it’s the only western PESA radar on a fighter, combining the features of several different older French radars. Supposedly the RBE2 pesa is in the same range class but slightly inferior to the RDY on the Mirage 2000c-5. It’s also apparently lacking beam interweave but can very rapidly change modes. The Rafale got an AESA upgrade in 2013 which increased range 50% but it was considered inferior at the time to the apg-80 used by the UAE F-16 block 60. The Eurofighter has only recently gotten an ARSA radar which is very large and seemingly very powerful but not yet widely deployed. Both aircraft use IRST that are likely very good but it would be difficult to compare them. The 2008 Swiss evaluation rated the RBE2 as providing better overall situational awareness onsite of it having less range.

EW wise the Rafale electronic warfare system is well known and was key to its success in Libya in 2011, operating without SEAD escort while the Eurofighter couldn’t do much other then escort allied fighters. The British have invested quite a bit in multirolization of the Typhoon but it is unclear how successful this has been.