Potential of the Mirage 4000

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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viperzerof-2

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Unread post19 May 2022, 21:42

Though Europe produced some excellent aircraft in the last few years of the Cold War few of these where fighters. By 1991 the mirage 2000 was the only domestic European fourth generation fighter in service. The Rafale and EAP where only in tech demo stage. The Mirage 2000 seems to have been more in the F-20 class and according to Indian antidotes not the equal to the Mig-29 (this with the RDM radar)

https://hushkit.net/2019/08/12/mig-29-v ... asand/amp/


But France built a twin engine Mirage 4000 with movable (but not automatic) canards. What was the potential of this aircraft?
Fuel fraction was similar to a flanker. Weight of wiki is to be believed about 29000 empty. How would this aircraft have compared to aircraft of the 1980s?
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spazsinbad

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Unread post19 May 2022, 21:54

Always fun to intercept a SLOWIE to see reaction on their uncomprehending faces - PRICELESS. Miracle 2000C & Tobago.

Mirage2000CformSocataTOBAGO.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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hornetfinn

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Unread post20 May 2022, 12:36

viperzerof-2 wrote:Though Europe produced some excellent aircraft in the last few years of the Cold War few of these where fighters. By 1991 the mirage 2000 was the only domestic European fourth generation fighter in service. The Rafale and EAP where only in tech demo stage. The Mirage 2000 seems to have been more in the F-20 class and according to Indian antidotes not the equal to the Mig-29 (this with the RDM radar)

https://hushkit.net/2019/08/12/mig-29-v ... asand/amp/


But France built a twin engine Mirage 4000 with movable (but not automatic) canards. What was the potential of this aircraft?
Fuel fraction was similar to a flanker. Weight of wiki is to be believed about 29000 empty. How would this aircraft have compared to aircraft of the 1980s?


Mirage 2000 does lack power compared to aircraft like MiG-29 or F-16. It's not hard to imagine that MiG-29 has better overall maneuverability and higher raw performance. There probably isn't that much difference in RDM radar vs N019 radar in MiG-29. Super 530D and R-27 are also quite similar and R-73+HMS is likely superior to Matra Magic-2 in Mirage 2000. So in air-to-air combat, MiG-29 is possibly better than Mirage 2000H. In air-to-ground Mirage 2000H is likely better and later variants significantly better.

Mirage 4000 was definitely interesting concept. I think it would've been something like F-15E with less power due to relatively weak Snecma M53 engines. But it would've required customer(s) with a lot of money as France alone could not afford to develop it along with Mirage 2000.
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mixelflick

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Unread post20 May 2022, 16:34

It's possible the Mirage 4000 would have been competitive, save for the less powerful engines (vs. say, the F-100's and later F-110's in F-15's/16's. Its weapons probably would have paralleled the Mirage 2000, which would have put it a step behind there as well.

So far as I know, only Saudi Arabia showed any interest (beyond France itself). They could have likely afforded it, although again it would have likely been inferior to the F-15's they wound up buying/flying 'till this day. One looks alone though, I think it was a real thing of beauty!
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F-16ADF

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Unread post21 May 2022, 00:22

Old twelve page article on the Mirage 4000, with some nice pictures. It was basically the "first" Eurocanard. A good looking jet and typical of Dassault types such as Mirage III, F1, IV, and Rafale.


Dassault Mirage 4000.pdf
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viperzerof-2

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Unread post21 May 2022, 02:12

Excellent article! Really was an interesting aircraft.
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edpop

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Unread post21 May 2022, 03:26

What a beautiful plane. Sure looks larger than the 2000 model.
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