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Re: Comparison by Spurts

Unread postPosted: 20 Apr 2021, 19:21
by wrightwing
eloise wrote:Do you think air launched sm-6 can reach hypersonic

The current version of the SM-6 is high supersonic. The 1B models will be hypersonic, and have even more range.

Re: Comparison by Spurts

Unread postPosted: 20 Apr 2021, 20:06
by eloise
wrightwing wrote:The current version of the SM-6 is high supersonic

Yes but that when launched from ground surface.
air launch increase range and velocity a lot, as in case of air launched Iskander => Kinzhal

Re: Comparison by Spurts

Unread postPosted: 20 Apr 2021, 20:25
by sprstdlyscottsmn
The thing with SMs though is the booster part (not seen in that Rhino shot) gets it to "air launched" conditions before the missile itself fires off. There may be no performance boost at all, possibly even a degradation, between an AEGIS launched SM-6 and an SM-6 launched from a Rhino flying over the AEGIS.

Re: Comparison by Spurts

Unread postPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 10:03
by eloise
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:The thing with SMs though is the booster part (not seen in that Rhino shot) gets it to "air launched" conditions before the missile itself fires off. There may be no performance boost at all, possibly even a degradation, between an AEGIS launched SM-6 and an SM-6 launched from a Rhino flying over the AEGIS.

SM-1MR and SM-2MR also top out at Mach 3.5 without booster :?
It is a bit strange, the top speed is the same with and without booster. And the booster is also very heavy, almost as heavy as the missile itself
1280px-RIM-66_Standard_missiles_on_launcher_aboard_USS_Ticonderoga_(CG-47)_during_tests_off_Puerto_Rico_March_1983.jpg

sm-6.jpg

MK 72 Booster brochure.jpg

Re: Comparison by Spurts

Unread postPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 11:57
by hornetfinn
eloise wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:The thing with SMs though is the booster part (not seen in that Rhino shot) gets it to "air launched" conditions before the missile itself fires off. There may be no performance boost at all, possibly even a degradation, between an AEGIS launched SM-6 and an SM-6 launched from a Rhino flying over the AEGIS.

SM-1MR and SM-2MR also top out at Mach 3.5 without booster :?
It is a bit strange, the top speed is the same with and without booster. And the booster is also very heavy, almost as heavy as the missile itself


I think there could be couple of explanations for that. First, the stated top speeds might not be true top speeds of the missiles. Second and rather likely explanation is that while top speed might not be that much higher for SM-6, it can probably maintain it longer with longer burning sustainer rocket motor. Or it could be a combination of both of these.

Re: Comparison by Spurts

Unread postPosted: 02 May 2021, 14:19
by eloise
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:The thing with SMs though is the booster part (not seen in that Rhino shot) gets it to "air launched" conditions before the missile itself fires off. There may be no performance boost at all, possibly even a degradation, between an AEGIS launched SM-6 and an SM-6 launched from a Rhino flying over the AEGIS.

After some research, I think I figure out roughly the speed and range of air launched SM-6
RIM-66A (SM-1MR block I) with MK-27 dual thrust rocket motor has a top speed of Mach 1.8 and max range of 32 km
RIM-66B (SM-1MR Block V) with MK-56 dual thrust rocket motor has a top speed is Mach 3.5 and max range of 46 km
RIM-66C (SM-2MR Block I) with the same MK-56 rocket motor but with new INS guidance logic increased its range to 74 km but keep same top speed.
RIM-66G (SM-2MR Block II) with the new Thiokol MK-104 rocket motor has a top speed of Mach 3.5 and max range of 166 km.
RIM-156A (SM-2ER Block IV) still use the same MK-104 rocket motor but with the additional MK-72 booster, range got extended to 370 km
RIM-174 (SM-6) same MK-104 rocket motor and MK-72 booster as RIM-156A but use an active radar seeker instead

AGM-78 which is an air launched derivative of RIM-66A (SM-1MR block I) with the same airframe and the same MK-27 MoD 4 dual thrust rocket motor. The only thing changed is the AGM-45A-3Aa seeker. That missile has a top speed of Mach 2.5 and max range of 90 km. In short, compared to ground launched version, the air launched version of standard missile can increase top speed by 1.38 times and max range by 2.8 times.
Air launched SM-6 doesn't have the MK-72 booster but it still got the MK-104 motor section, so the kinematic when launched from ground will be similar to RIM-66G (SM-2MR block II), when launched from air, we can expect it to reach top speed of Mach 4.83 and max range of 465 km.

Re: Comparison by Spurts

Unread postPosted: 02 May 2021, 15:51
by madrat
Just having the ability to air-launch gives off-ship launch ability to help conceal fleet assets OTH. That is if you can get targeting information to do so. I'm guessing that hypersonic weapons would be spotted by ships. Long range airborne targets would be spotted by Hawkeyes. And land targets designated through a command structure.

Re: Comparison by Spurts

Unread postPosted: 20 Jul 2021, 20:34
by sprstdlyscottsmn
So, the 7th anniversary of my first iteration of this is coming up. I had hoped to have this finished by then but I simply have not had the time. I am streamlining some of the comparisons and I am happy with the results so far. Right now I hope to have this version finished and any technical issues found by you all corrected by the end of this year.

Re: Comparison by Spurts

Unread postPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 20:15
by swiss
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:So, the 7th anniversary of my first iteration of this is coming up. I had hoped to have this finished by then but I simply have not had the time. I am streamlining some of the comparisons and I am happy with the results so far. Right now I hope to have this version finished and any technical issues found by you all corrected by the end of this year.


Thanks for your effort. Can't wait, to see the results. :D