How capable are SHORADs?

[madrat]

How about adapting APKWS to a vehicle-mounted C-RAM? Poor man's RBS-70, and adaption of a platform already in the logistics chain. Basically you'd be augmenting Stinger with a laser-guided option.

[mmm]

Well I don't know about SALH suitability for C-RAM, it's kinda unprecedented AFAIK, not going to count out 2.75" rocket airframe, but US Army doesn't appear to be asking for IFPC to keep up with the tip of mechanized formations, as I understand it's still for the semi fixed sites like forward logistic hubs that you can't entirely get rid of. But I'm guessing they want the minimum protection configuration to have as little footprint as possible so there's the option to disperse even more but still have some defense to create uncertainty for attackers. From that I extrapolated that they may also find more affordable interceptors to be more appealing, for what they need to defend.

APKWS with little to no modification can probably work for C-UAS, while also contribute to ground combat. It's certainly possible to find a place on M-SHORAD IMHO.

[boogieman]

Well I don't know about SALH suitability for C-RAM, it's kinda unprecedented AFAIK, not going to count out 2.75" rocket airframe, but US Army doesn't appear to be asking for IFPC to keep up with the tip of mechanized formations.

I find this surprising, since the whole M-SHORAD thing seems to have been directed at Russia, particularly in the Baltics. If things were ever to kick off there the BCTs in theatre would be heavily outnumbered and certainly subject to Russian airpower (at least in the early stages).

[weasel1962]

IFPC and M-Shorad are separate programs.

[boogieman]

My mistake - cheers for the correction

[basher54321]

Rockets from Gaza, on right, are seen in the night sky fired towards Israel from Beit Lahia in the northern Gaza Strip on May 14, 2021, while Iron Dome interceptor missiles, on left, rise to meet them. (Anas Baba/AFP)

[hornetfinn]

USA getting more into SHORAD especially against drones:

https://www.twz.com/drastic-increase-in-army-coyote-drone-interceptor-purchase-plans

The U.S. Army plans to substantially increase its arsenal of Coyote counter-drone interceptors, as well as associated launchers and radars, in the next five years or so. The service says it wants to buy 6,000 jet-powered Block 2 variants, which carry an explosive warhead to destroy their target, and 700 more Block 3 versions that utilize an unspecified "non-kinetic" payload.

The Army disclosed the details about its Coyote-related purchase plans for Fiscal Years 2025 through 2029 in a contracting notice about an expected sole-source contract to manufacturer Raytheon released earlier this week. In addition to the Block 2 and Block 3 interceptors, the service is looking to acquire 252 fixed launchers, 52 mobile launchers, 118 fixed Ku-band radars, and 33 mobile radars. Under the deal, Raytheon would also provide support for the maintenance and repair of at least 15 Coyote systems both in the United States and unspecified forward-deployed locations around the world.

It seems like Coyote Block IIs are being used by US troops in Iraq, Syria and Jordan against suicide drones used by Iranian backed proxies.

I think USA should really buy more NASAMS systems themselves also to protect troops and important installations against both more advanced drones and cruise missiles. Patriot is great system but very expensive (and thus limited numbers) against those kinds of targets.

[wrightwing]

USA getting more into SHORAD especially against drones:



It seems like Coyote Block IIs are being used by US troops in Iraq, Syria and Jordan against suicide drones used by Iranian backed proxies.

I think USA should really buy more NASAMS systems themselves also to protect troops and important installations against both more advanced drones and cruise missiles. Patriot is great system but very expensive (and thus limited numbers) against those kinds of targets.

Ideally, more NASAMS and Sky Guard 35mm AAA for fixed sites, along with M-SHORAD/MSL Strykers, SLAMRAAM, and Sky Ranger 35mm AAA, for mobile SHORAD. For non-kinetics, high energy microwave, and lasers need to get scaled up, to provide more magazine depth.

[charlielima223]

I remember playing Command and Conquer Generals back in the day and the US Forces had a laser equipped Avenger to shoot stuff down. While this is real life and not a game it is interesting to read about none the less.

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/03/exc ... no-2-says/

[hornetfinn]

Laser weapons are definitely part of the future as are all kinds of missiles and anti-drone drones as all have their strengths and shortcomings depending on targets, situation, weather conditions etc. I think we will also see larger and more effective vehicle mounted EW systems to counter different kinds of drones.

[charlielima223]

Earlier this year the US Army said they will send their new Stryker SHORADS armed with DW suite to CENTCOM AOR. They're headed to Iraq...

https://www.defensenews.com/battlefield ... rone-boom/

[hornetfinn]

I've often wondered why USA just didn't develop a modern version of MIM-72 Chaparral? Basically something similar to Chaparral but with modern vehicle and modern sensors using AIM-9X missiles. Another missile with similar size to AIM-9 is VT1 which is used by French Crotale NG system. Interestingly VT1 missile was developed by US Company LTV in 1980s and it's a really good missile (Finland uses Crotale NG). I know that USA basically went with Stingers and then Patriot system with nothing in between and AD systems were probably not seen as very good business back then.

[ricnunes]

I've often wondered why USA just didn't develop a modern version of MIM-72 Chaparral?

Exactly!!
14 years ago, I spoke to a Portuguese MIM-72 Chaparral operator and about the system and he told me following (or something along these lines):
- The FLIR system used to detect and initially track targets is actually very good. I think (it was already some years ago) he told me that he could detect and even track birds at a considerable distance (with the FLIR). I told me that the FLIR system would detect targets like aircraft at much longer ranges (and much sooner) than the missile seekers themselves which greatly limits the system's (Chaparral) effectiveness.
He also told me that the Chaparral missiles fumes are quite toxic which means that the Chaparral can only be deployed (to open fire at enemy targets/aircraft) in open and clear spaces which obviously makes the system very vulnerable to the enemy.

Resuming the only problem with the Chaparral seems to be its outdated missiles. I agree something along the lines of an AIM-9X (or other similar missiles like ASRAAM, etc...) adapted to the Chaparral would be an excellent and specially doable and even economical measure to upgrade and greatly improve this system's capabilities.

I'm sending here in attachment some pictures about that Chaparral which I visited (even inside it) that I took from my phone at the time (which wasn't even a smartphone) which were taken at night and the quality of the camera wasn't that good to start with, so sorry for the lack of quality!

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

So, this is going to sound weird, but I had an AN/TWQ-1 Avenger, which was sort of HMMWV with a "Chaparral" top come to my high school in the 90s and the students got to "play with it." FLIR, Stinger missiles instead of Sidewinders, and a M2. I remember pointing the FLIR at the crowd and being amazed that noses were so much colder than the rest of the face that everyone looked like Zombies. I have no doubt that the FLIR system on a Chaparral would be able to see a bird at substantial ranges.

[Gums]

Salute!

Well, Spurts, I played with a Stinger way back when and was surprised how sensitive the seeker was.

The challenge with it and the 'winder is the tail chase scenario. So the face shot is the real killer for those missiles.

Regardless, the old 'winders and Stingers are really more economical than the new, cosmic missiles and support radars and such.

Gums sends...