Indian Mirage 2000 hits targets in Pakistan

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weasel1962

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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 01:21

Fake news.
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vm

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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 02:47

My summary -
1.India made the bombing raids to send a message rather than cause damage. Must remember that balakot is is not in pak kashmir but in kpk, a Pakistani state. That's why non military target terminology used in official statement.
2. One confirmed mig21 loss of iaf. The info I had on first day was it was from a Sam missile.
3. Mystery of 2 pilots captured as per official spokesperson of Pakistan ?
4. India didn't have a plan B after the punitive bombing on terrorist hideouts. What after escalation? After all this was a action in mainland Pakistan not kashmir. Indira Gandhi planned for 5 months and executed surrender of East Pakistan in just 13 days in 1971. No half hearted bombing runs. This was more like American action in Afghanistan and Iraq. No end plan.
5. Targeting of terror camps in Pakistan territory should become the norm now rather than exception. Only use front line planes rather than planes from the 50s.
6. Lot of fake news being propagated by pakistan including on this site. India needs to improve its message transmission. Instead of terrorist camps in Pakistan the issue has become diverted to war between nuclear neighbours, peace, Air to air missile, etc.
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jedijedi

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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 03:57

Update: This first video has been debunked as doctored by the expert in India who debunked Indian media's own theory of F16 being shot down so he is likely trying to put out the truth.

https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1101917182286544899

A short video has been posted on youtube which apparently shows a single engine jet chasing a dual engine jet. It could be a F16 chasing a F15 or as the video claims a JF17 chasing a Su30. Pakistan does not have any dual engine jets so it definitely cannot be a Pakistani mock dogfight. The chaser does look like JF17 but it could just be my mind playing with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3puvqPMisZ4

Can experts here review and chime in. There is also another video circulating with wreckage being cleaned up on the Indian side. It is a mangled mess of metal but can anyone spot/identify the bird that crashed from the wreckage. I am attaching it with the post.

Edit: The video might be doctored in some way, or maybe the zoom in is from another source but cleverly shown cropped at the end to give it the appearance of the two desired planes. I will leave it to the experts.

Edit 2: There is a well known Indian news anchor who reported a Su 30 being shot down before even a Pakistani claimed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2NKrHDCZWQ

This was later retracted. The same Anchor then tried to put the story out that it was a F16 engine that Pakistanis showed, but the analyst sitting there debunked his own compatriot's theory.

https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/sta ... 5775425536

^^ This last video clip is worth watching for Aviation fans.
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test.mp4 [ 6.31 MiB | Viewed 28062 times ]

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noth

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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 06:07

vm wrote:My summary -
1.India made the bombing raids to send a message rather than cause damage. Must remember that balakot is is not in pak kashmir but in kpk, a Pakistani state. That's why non military target terminology used in official statement.


Still no video footage of those strikes, until that surfaces I'm not believing this raid was succesful. Even the India media don't have proof.
vm wrote:2. One confirmed mig21 loss of iaf. The info I had on first day was it was from a Sam missile.
3. Mystery of 2 pilots captured as per official spokesperson of Pakistan ?
4. India didn't have a plan B after the punitive bombing on terrorist hideouts. What after escalation? After all this was a action in mainland Pakistan not kashmir. Indira Gandhi planned for 5 months and executed surrender of East Pakistan in just 13 days in 1971. No half hearted bombing runs. This was more like American action in Afghanistan and Iraq. No end plan.
5. Targeting of terror camps in Pakistan territory should become the norm now rather than exception. Only use front line planes rather than planes from the 50s.

Mirage 2000H-5s aren't from the 1950s.
vm wrote:6. Lot of fake news being propagated by pakistan including on this site. India needs to improve its message transmission. Instead of terrorist camps in Pakistan the issue has become diverted to war between nuclear neighbours, peace, Air to air missile, etc.
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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 06:17

I was meant to stay in stealth mode over this topic but hell, the times are exciting, so is the air combat. Cant stand.. :bang:

jedijedi the aircraft you asked about from the attached video is an indian Mi-17 they claimed they lost the very same morning "kashmir dogfight" occured. The oblong piece these soldiers are pulling out using rope is a rear beam of that helicopter. No trace of a Flanker there.

The other "chasing" videos look kind of like CGI to me but Im not insist on that, could be legit although the chased Su-30 doesnt look like one at all. If anything Id say this gotta be two JF-17s. Enemy fighters dont chase each other like that, the chaser should employ its weapons alredy instead doing fotmation flying with its prey. Reduce the time to kill - that's what that business is all about.

What else. The fact that indians were able to find and demonstrate the Aim-120 piece tells me that it has to hit something on their side first. Maybe it hit that Su-30? It would explain how they were able to find a debrie this small so quickly over such a vast theritory - if that debrie got stucked within the wreckake or fell close with a debrie shower it was easy to track down.. so they found it simply by going after the wreckage and stumbling upon it.
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vm

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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 09:03

The mystery of the 2nd captured pilot as claimed by the Pakistani major general spokesperson in his press conference is the biggest mystery.
He and the rest of his supporters here can't wriggle out of the videotaped live press conference.
Rest of the videos above and claims of other fighters excluding the mig21 are just unverified claims.
And as I said, no mig21s for future interdiction in hostile airspace. Only mirage 2ks and su30s.
Why the mig21 guy went into hostile airspace alone should come out in the next weeks ?
Also tactics wise this could start a new trend of iaf bombing runs in Pakistan after any terrorist attacks in India.
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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 09:31

vm wrote:The mystery of the 2nd captured pilot as claimed by the Pakistani major general spokesperson in his press conference is the biggest mystery.


Question: are you still trying to maintaon that F-16 was shot down?
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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 09:33

With an AMRAAM in their hands, Indians have inadvertently accepted another jet down in their territory :roll:

The MiG wrecakge fell in Pakistani territory, the chopper crashed inside Indian territory but the crash site is about 150km away from where the dogfight took place.

The AMRAAM was most likely found embedded in this probable second downed jet.
Pakistanis do claim a Sukhoi and in the beginning, even Indian media also reported a Sukhoi down.
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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 09:46

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/iaf-mig ... irst-time/

Having secured a highly advantageous position, Wing commander Abhinandan Vartaman of the Indian air force successfully fired his Russian short range Vympel R-73 air to air missile at the F-16, scoring a hit


So now they're really doubling down on killing or at least hitting an F-16.
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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 10:34

zero-one wrote:https://theaviationgeekclub.com/iaf-mig-21s-vs-paf-f-16s-the-dogfight-details-revealed-for-the-first-time/

Having secured a highly advantageous position, Wing commander Abhinandan Vartaman of the Indian air force successfully fired his Russian short range Vympel R-73 air to air missile at the F-16, scoring a hit


So now they're really doubling down on killing or at least hitting an F-16.


The Telegraph article linked within the piece above says that the F-16 went down in India.
Where is the wreckage?
It isn't something to hide, neither did Pakistanis when they shot down the MiG.

Indians discovered the tiny piece of AMRAAM but still no F-16 pieces to verify their claims of downing an F-16.
(They initially pretended their own shot down MiG as an F-16; see a few pages back on this thread.)
So until and unless, we have an F-16 wreckage discovered and presented to the world, its a figment of ones imagination and a blatant lie.
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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 10:42

jedijedi wrote:A short video has been posted on youtube which apparently shows a single engine jet chasing a dual engine jet. It could be a F16 chasing a F15 or as the video claims a JF17 chasing a Su30. Pakistan does not have any dual engine jets so it definitely cannot be a Pakistani mock dogfight. The chaser does look like JF17 but it could just be my mind playing with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3puvqPMisZ4


This alternatively could be Myanmar JF-17 chasing Myanmar Su-30. Or Any of the world's F-16s chasing any of the worlds F-15s. Or Nigerian JF-17 chasing Zimbabwean Flanker. Based on the fact they decided to put confirmed Mi-17 crashsite footage as "proof" of downed Su-30, I say this video has zero credibility. Most likely 3 different videos put together.

jedijedi wrote:Can experts here review and chime in. There is also another video circulating with wreckage being cleaned up on the Indian side. It is a mangled mess of metal but can anyone spot/identify the bird that crashed from the wreckage. I am attaching it with the post.


The folks in the video have INSAS rifles, so the only thing that is clear is that it is in India. Or Nepal. The wreck is definitely not a Flanker, and hardly a JF-17/F-16 either.The biggest piece - long tubular thingie they were pulling with a rope looks more like a MiG-21 or maybe a Su-22. Probably just another recycled video from way back.

The Telegraph article is written by a fellow named Rahul Bedi from New Delhi. According to him F-16 crashed in India. I am dying to see F-16 crash site, pretty sure Indian side would have showed it by now, instead of a single AMRAAM piece. Also, if Indian pilot attacked the F-16 from "60 degree angle and 7,000 feet above" and was shot down "moments later" how the hell did he end up in Pakistan, alleged F-16 and an AMRAAM piece in India?
Last edited by hythelday on 03 Mar 2019, 10:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 10:47

Shimud wrote:So until and unless, we have an F-16 wreckage discovered and presented to the world, its a figment of ones imagination and a blatant lie.


Exactly, I have a side by side image of the crashed wreckage that they're claiming to be an F-16 and an actual PW-F100 engine on a USAF F-16. the Size difference is immense.
See here: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=55055&start=120

So far, their strongest claim to the F-16 shot down is the AMRAAM wreckage, when I told one of them that it could have come from a missile that missed, they told me that it was a WVR fight and that AMRAAMs are not intended for WVR.

I said that many of the AMRAAMs kills historically came from WVR shots and it is a very potent WVR weapon albeit more expensive. I was countered by saying Pakistan will not use it in WVR because they are poor.

Personally I am on India's side during this whole situation, I think it was right for them to bomb terrorist camps that were threatening their citizens. But now that they have lost an aircraft to the Pakistani's it seems that they let their nationalistic pride get the best of them. Every scrap of metal on the ground is an F-16 to them now.
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vm

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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 11:41

noth wrote:
vm wrote:My summary -
1.India made the bombing raids to send a message rather than cause damage. Must remember that balakot is is not in pak kashmir but in kpk, a Pakistani state. That's why non military target terminology used in official statement.


Still no video footage of those strikes, until that surfaces I'm not believing this raid was succesful. Even the India media don't have proof.
vm wrote:2. One confirmed mig21 loss of iaf. The info I had on first day was it was from a Sam missile.
3. Mystery of 2 pilots captured as per official spokesperson of Pakistan ?
4. India didn't have a plan B after the punitive bombing on terrorist hideouts. What after escalation? After all this was a action in mainland Pakistan not kashmir. Indira Gandhi planned for 5 months and executed surrender of East Pakistan in just 13 days in 1971. No half hearted bombing runs. This was more like American action in Afghanistan and Iraq. No end plan.
5. Targeting of terror camps in Pakistan territory should become the norm now rather than exception. Only use front line planes rather than planes from the 50s.

Mirage 2000H-5s aren't from the 1950s.
vm wrote:6. Lot of fake news being propagated by pakistan including on this site. India needs to improve its message transmission. Instead of terrorist camps in Pakistan the issue has become diverted to war between nuclear neighbours, peace, Air to air missile, etc.

You didn't get my point. They might have totally missed the terrorist camps but the action taken is a landmark.
Since the 1971 war, Indian fighter planes have never crossed the line of control with Pakistan, in spite of attacks on our parliament, 150 civilians killed in Mumbai, kargil war, train blasts in Mumbai multiple times in which hundreds were killed and all claimed by pakistan based groups. And of course the active terror in kashmir by pakistan since late 80s.
It was a mental block that any action would result in a full blown war and a nuclear exchange.
For comparison everyone knows that Pakistan supports the taliban in Afghanistan but American jets never bombed their hideouts in mainland Pakistan. Only drone attacks in bordering areas which were normally compromised by the Pakistanis.
Now we see that the Pakistanis start smoking the peace pipe nearly immediately and even return the pilot in 2 days.
They even claim that their jets deliberately missed our military installations to keep the peace. No talk of Tactical nukes, etc.
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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 13:19

vm wrote:
noth wrote:
vm wrote:My summary -
1.India made the bombing raids to send a message rather than cause damage. Must remember that balakot is is not in pak kashmir but in kpk, a Pakistani state. That's why non military target terminology used in official statement.


Still no video footage of those strikes, until that surfaces I'm not believing this raid was succesful. Even the India media don't have proof.
vm wrote:2. One confirmed mig21 loss of iaf. The info I had on first day was it was from a Sam missile.
3. Mystery of 2 pilots captured as per official spokesperson of Pakistan ?
4. India didn't have a plan B after the punitive bombing on terrorist hideouts. What after escalation? After all this was a action in mainland Pakistan not kashmir. Indira Gandhi planned for 5 months and executed surrender of East Pakistan in just 13 days in 1971. No half hearted bombing runs. This was more like American action in Afghanistan and Iraq. No end plan.
5. Targeting of terror camps in Pakistan territory should become the norm now rather than exception. Only use front line planes rather than planes from the 50s.

Mirage 2000H-5s aren't from the 1950s.
vm wrote:6. Lot of fake news being propagated by pakistan including on this site. India needs to improve its message transmission. Instead of terrorist camps in Pakistan the issue has become diverted to war between nuclear neighbours, peace, Air to air missile, etc.

You didn't get my point. They might have totally missed the terrorist camps but the action taken is a landmark.
Since the 1971 war, Indian fighter planes have never crossed the line of control with Pakistan, in spite of attacks on our parliament, 150 civilians killed in Mumbai, kargil war, train blasts in Mumbai multiple times in which hundreds were killed and all claimed by pakistan based groups. And of course the active terror in kashmir by pakistan since late 80s.
It was a mental block that any action would result in a full blown war and a nuclear exchange.
For comparison everyone knows that Pakistan supports the taliban in Afghanistan but American jets never bombed their hideouts in mainland Pakistan. Only drone attacks in bordering areas which were normally compromised by the Pakistanis.
Now we see that the Pakistanis start smoking the peace pipe nearly immediately and even return the pilot in 2 days.
They even claim that their jets deliberately missed our military installations to keep the peace. No talk of Tactical nukes, etc.


Mate, you are digressing from the real topic. Its not a Pakistan or India bashing thread hence stick to the topic.
Thanks.
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Unread post03 Mar 2019, 13:23

zero-one wrote:
Shimud wrote: ...I think it was right for them to bomb terrorist camps that were threatening their citizens...


It is setting a bad precedent. Tomorrow, any country can bomb their opponent, claiming that they have attacked terrorists.
Remember that one man terrorist could be another man's freedom fighter.
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