Russia-Ukraine War 2022

Discuss air warfare, doctrine, air forces, historic campaigns, etc.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post23 Sep 2022, 10:10

zhangmdev wrote:Shahed-136 started appearing in the south. Having a distinct noise. If spotted in time, they can be easily shot down. Claimed 5. Often came in pairs, one shot down, the other got through. More report of damages by those.


It's now pretty easy to do a decent UAV or loitering munition using basically commercial technology. So even country like Iran or even North Korea can develop and manufacture a lot of dangerous drones. They won't be nearly as good as some Western high-end drones, but good enough to inflict serious damage and cheap enough to be used massively. So defence against them won't be easy even though they can be easily shot down. There are solutions for this problem but I think more could be done when it comes to sensors and kinetic and non-kinetic defences.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post23 Sep 2022, 12:35

Israel introduced Harpy in the 1990s. Iran has years of combat experience against Saudi. But the West seemingly neglected to develop weapons of such class. So far no loitering munitions used by UKR are comparable to those?

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Seems UKR is good at dealing with Orlan-10. Quite a few are destroyed or captured. In this war, all kinds of UAVs are spent like there is no tomorrow. Maybe it is time they should be regarded as some kind of ammo instead of cheap aircraft.

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203mm 2S7M Malka?, T-80, Msta-S with sun shield captured.

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Looks like the first video of Shahed-136 being shot down. Quite a blast and a sizable smoke plume.

A rare close view of a successful engagement in daytime. The AD missile was bigger than the UAV.

https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:48170010 ... _videoshow
Attachments
malka.jpeg
Malka?
loit.jpeg
Shahed-136?
Last edited by zhangmdev on 23 Sep 2022, 16:37, edited 4 times in total.
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usafr

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Unread post23 Sep 2022, 15:55

Hornetfinn, your assessment is right on. And, this is exactly where the USA is heading, fast.

Technology has hidden what is going on from public view. Those willing to believe that the rapid and accelerating political and societal changes happening now in the USA are all "naturaly" occurring and legitimate are going to be sorry they had their heads stuck in the sand (glued to their iPhone). When they final look up and don't recognized where they are any more they will be in another Russia.
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mmm

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Unread post23 Sep 2022, 16:33

I don't know what they use for hard kill against small UAS bigger than quad, still MANPADS?

If so they're surprisingly good for not having proximity fuze against target with (supposedly?)low IR signature. It can't be much higher than head on manned jet can it?

Does appear Shahed-136 has a bit of reach, Odessa is somewhere 80km+ from closest secure(relative) launch point, unless it's from sea. They may have been used more as a long range strike substitute where possible than tactical munition?

But it could mean they can't fly low enough to avoid radar and early detection/discrimination, with LOS command link.

Edit:
Hmm, this one seem to have been downed by simple intense gunfire maybe AAA or HMG?

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/15 ... 0390351872
Last edited by mmm on 23 Sep 2022, 17:39, edited 1 time in total.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post23 Sep 2022, 17:15

Shahed-136 is a sizable target. Its published range is around 2,000 km. The actual range of command link probably is limited. UKR reported it has a 20-30kg HE warhead. A nasty opponent. One can hear its sound in the video. It is not particularly fast, or flies very high. Starstreak, Martlet, ZU-23 can easily destroy it, if discovered. More AD systems like Stormer, Gepard and VAMPIRE will help.

The missile engaging it appeared to be very large, likely from some ground base AD system. Buk?
Attachments
intercept.jpeg
interception
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mmm

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Unread post23 Sep 2022, 18:18

I don't buy for a second Shahed-136 has 2000km flight distance, RQ-7 doesn't have anywhere close to that, the wing is not endurance optimized high aspect ratio, by any chance it can carry that much fuel it's a waste to not trade it for warhead when a hard cap on range is the LOS command link. Mid hundred at most would be my guess.

And I forgot all the other options they have now.

VAMPIRE kit apparently adds a proximity fuze to tolerate a near miss by APKWS, for physically small UAS it should help, it can be a relatively cheap option for what it offers. As with Martlet. Starstreak's multiple dart can be an improvement over single impact fuzed MANPADS. Though few small caliber AAA has it. I still think Gepard has bigger role covering maneuver forces against rocket lobbing SU-25 and the like.

Having enough of firing units and have them cued by surveillance radar would be important.

I do wonder how much targeting issue the Russians run into, I doubt gas station or random building on the coast are the intended target. In cluttered urban area finding a specific vehicle/building with probably a few overhead imagine or less can be challenging, the perspective is even different. If it's attack GPS coordinate with some final manual refinement jammer could prove disruptive, small warhead than a cruise or ballistic missile doesn't help either.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post23 Sep 2022, 18:43

First Mohajer-6 shot down reported near Odessa? The second type of Iranian UAV has appeared.

Soft kill or malfunction. Who knows?

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A rare sighting of Strela-10 AD system

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Destroyed Z and captured V
Attachments
mohajer6.jpeg
Mohajer-6?
strela10.jpeg
Strela-10
ztank.JPG
T-72B3
Last edited by zhangmdev on 23 Sep 2022, 20:01, edited 4 times in total.
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mmm

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Unread post23 Sep 2022, 19:02

It's recovered from water so soft kill? Ukraine came prepared it's layered combined hard and softkill.

Their communication hardening is not very good.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post24 Sep 2022, 10:21

UKR still has Tunguska?

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Not Only Shahed-136: a Detailed Study of Another Iranian Shahed-131 Kamikaze Drone Used by russia

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_te ... -4320.html

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the search for cheap and effective means of countermeasures is more than urgent

https://en.defence-ua.com/analysis/how_ ... -4322.html

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Looks like a dead Buk target acquisition radar?

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Apparently Su-30 has one engine on fire. Fate of the aircraft uncertain.

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Looks like an Orlan-10 launcher and control station was caught for the first time.
Attachments
tunguska.JPG
2S6 Tunguska
vlcsnap-2022-09-24-21h25m47s887.jpg
Buk radar?
vlcsnap-2022-09-24-23h13m53s194.jpg
Su-30?
orlan10.jpg
Orlan-10
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mmm

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Unread post24 Sep 2022, 17:40

What's been suspiciously missing are Ukrainian loitering munition. It's hyped for a while, a few footages of anti personnel uses then silence... Neither did Russia report many if any usage as far as I can tell.

And no sign of anyone ramping to get more delivery to Ukraine, AeroVironment received a paltry 2.2 million contract for Switchblade 600, that's a few dozens at the most...
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zhangmdev

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Unread post24 Sep 2022, 18:06

Switchblade 600 is not combat ready. Switchblade 300 can be easily jammed according to RUS. Israel refuses to help. No Harpy or Spike NLOS. The West has no comparable systems to offer.

UKR has improvised UAVs to drop explosives onto personnel and vehicles. A lot of videos of RUS soldiers suffering in the trenches. The long range ones are not very effective. Not an priority I guess.
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icemaverick

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Unread post25 Sep 2022, 00:36

It hasn't been confirmed but there is talk that 2 Su-30s were shot down today by the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians also claim to have shot down a Su-25 and Ka-52 today in the last 24 hours.

This definitely looks like a Flanker on fire but we don't see it hitting the ground:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuOkZc2I8cw

Here is a grainy video of the second claimed Su-30 shoot down:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/commen ... the_armed/
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zhangmdev

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Unread post25 Sep 2022, 03:41

Looks like a Su-34 was shot down. The crew ejected in time. Two good parachutes.

Also reported to be a Su-30SM. Uncertain.

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Something, claimed to be Ka-52, was shot down.

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Two T-90A had some mishappen and were abandoned.

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Soldiers sat on Strela-10 AD system with camouflage.

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Alexei Zhuravko, a former member of Ukrainian parliament, stayed in a hotel in Kherson, was kill by HIMARS. Another death is also being reported, RT war correspondent Murad Gazdiev. His team were also at the hotel but survived.

https://mailbd.net/news/zelensky-killed ... avko-5246/
https://military.pravda.ru/news/1752656 ... gostinicu/
https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2022- ... ndp-o.html

They were making a film? They were covering the 'referendum'.

https://trendingnewsbuzzer.com/in-khers ... n-a-hotel/
Attachments
vlcsnap-2022-09-25-10h36m11s470.jpg
Su-34
vlcsnap-2022-09-25-10h42m56s112.jpg
uncertain
eject.jpg
double parachutes
t90a.jpg
T-90A
strela10.jpg
Strela-10
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pron

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Unread post25 Sep 2022, 19:31

President Zelensky confirms in an interview with CBS News that the first NASAMS advanced air defence system has been delivered to Ukraine.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post26 Sep 2022, 00:12

It took three months to deliver NASAMS.

Apparently a destroyed R-330Zh Zhitel jamming station.

There is report about fighting in Rubizhne. Not sure if true. No idea where UKR attacking force has reached. That is a good sign.

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A very rare sighting of Osa and Gepard together.
Attachments
zhitel.jpeg
R-330Zh Zhitel
osa.jpeg
Osa Gepard
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