Russia-Ukraine War 2022

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tphuang

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Unread post24 Jun 2022, 18:16

ricnunes wrote:
tphuang wrote:
zhangmdev wrote:Kamikaze attack of PD-1 UAV on some oil refining plant in Rostov, 150 km from the border.

https://weibo.com/6893700678/LyUdZqTxt? ... 001030103_


Likely Mugin-5 Pro, which can be found on Alibaba (Chinese version of Amazon) for $20k with everything included
https://gagadget.com/en/139367-chinas-9 ... ussia-amp/

Who needs MQ-1C when you can buy hundreds of these cheap "civilian" drones for the same price and they are absolutely undetectable by the Russian air defense?


I disagree with your last paragraph!
Yes, it's true that such civilian drones (like the Mugin-5 Pro) have been proving their worth in Ukraine. However they are not a replacement for something like the MQ-1C since their capabilities are far, far inferior compared again to the MQ-1C!
For example the MQ-1C can carry up to four (4) Hellfire missiles and each Hellfire missile is heavier than the empty weight of a Mugin-5 Pro drone. Actually the weight of a single hellfire is twice the payload capacity of the Mugin-5 Pro drone!

On top if this the MQ-1C can carry up to eight (8) Stinger missiles which means it can be used against air targets - I can imagine that a MQ-1C in this configuration could be useful to counter enemy drones (or helicopters) which is a capability that drones like the Mugin-5 Pro simply don't possess.

All of this means that a single MQ-1C can deliver a much, much superior destruction power than several Mugin-5 Pro drones combined and can deliver such destructive power at longer ranges and from higher altitudes.
And it is yet to be seen or proven that the MQ-1C is more vulnerable to Russian Air Defences than cheaper drones like the Mugin-5 Pro. I honestly doubt that there's such a big diference in terms of "vulnerability" between the MQ-1C and drones like the Mugin-5 Pro.
Oh, and the MQ-1C sensors are far, far superior to the Mugin-5 Pro which means that the MQ-1C can engage targets from longer distances (combined with more powerful and longer ranged weapons) than drones like the Mugin-5 Pro. This should make the MQ-1C actually less vulnerable to Russian Air Defences (than something like the Mugin-5 Pro).


I said that half as a joke.

They are really not comparable. Ukraine is being quite innovative with how it uses commercially available product. Essentially, it turned a very slow moving and cheap commercial drone as a stealthy cruise missile. It turns out that picking up really tiny UAV at low altitude with plenty of background clutter is hard. I would think against a competent air defense with dedicated anti-drone systems, these things would get chewed up. But since Russia has such large swathes of targets and not enough modern anti-drone or EW platform around, they are actually not well set up to defend this type of threat.

And if we take it up a notch, Ukraine could buy a 1000 of this for $20 million. It would give Russia all sorts of problems if Ukraine tried to do massive drone attack on Russian soil with 1000 of these things.

The future of land warfare is quite interesting if any rebel group can just order 100 of these low tech drones off aliexpress and suddenly possess really economically damaging weapon against a country trying to run a modern economy.
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basher54321

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Unread post24 Jun 2022, 20:44

zhangmdev wrote:The proposed "Ukrainian Fighter Pilots Act"



Uncertain on the benefit of doing this outside of getting more low level videos of F-15s. You would think they also need the ISR and EW assets to make a dent in the Russian IADs.


Wagner Su-25s hmm.

24 June MOD Update 2022.jpg
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zhangmdev

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Unread post24 Jun 2022, 21:41

Not directily related to the fighting. If Ukraine survives the war, in one form or another, its air force will be rebuilt. Obviously they will not go back to the Soviet era fighters, so why not start training them using F-15/F-16 early? Showing solidarity with a beleaguered nation while costing very little, but by the American way of doing things, even such a small favor needs to be passed into law, needs some legal cover.

About ISR and EW: it is well known that the US/NATO is feeding Ukraine intel from the very beginning. The US has no better tool for ISR than what already has been deployed in the battle field. The usual big and expensive platforms won't last long. If there is some electronic warfare against the Russian IADs, no point disclosing such information.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post26 Jun 2022, 09:02

Russia launched about 50 missiles overnight, using Tu-22M3 from Belarusian airspace for the first time. A residential block in Shevchenkivskyi district of Kyiv fell victim.

Edit1:

The highrise building beside was destroyed on April 28, killing Vira Hyrych, a journalist and producer of Radio Liberty. The Russians targeted the same place twice, must be some reason.

https://uacrisis.org/en/obstril-kyyeva# ... 20shelling.

Edit2:

Reportedly, the US plans to announce as soon as this week that it has purchased an advanced, medium-to-long range surface-to-air missile defense system for Ukraine.

From Javelin, to M777, to HIMARS, to likely NASAMS, the US is steadily escalating the support to the Ukrainian cause.
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Shevchenkivskyi Kyiv
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mixelflick

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Unread post27 Jun 2022, 13:37

Interesting look at what's likely more Russian propoganda...

Another Aerial Victory for the Su-35? Ukrainian MiG-29 Shot Down By Russian Fighter Over Zelenodolsk
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... elenodolsk

Even if this is true, it's nothing to brag about. This is how bad things really are, as their state of the art wonder-fighter shot down a 30 year old, totally obsolete Mig-29 - and that's BIG news! Would love to know how much info and what type we got out of that downed SU-35 back in April. That really had to sting..
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pron

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Unread post27 Jun 2022, 14:20

Another attack on Snake Island, and this time a Pantsir (SA-22 Greyhound) are hit.
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1541401235236032516
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loke

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Unread post27 Jun 2022, 14:22

Great news! Seems NASAMS may be going to Ukraine: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/26/poli ... index.html

Since when did NASAMS have a range of "over 100 miles"??? Some secret development program? Or (more likely) CNN got it wrong...
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zhangmdev

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Unread post27 Jun 2022, 19:51

Martlet apparently hit something at quite a long range. Not a UAV. The altitude was unusually high, so the pilot had time to land it.

https://weibo.com/2708207531/LzHMPxTZl? ... 001030103_
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zhangmdev

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Unread post29 Jun 2022, 04:20

Kh-22 missile hit the Kremenchuk mall, barely. No secondary blast from the ammo stored there purported by the Russian MoD. Another missile hit a industrial site in the north, also barely.

https://weibo.com/6120606636/LzW6oogke? ... 001030103_

View from the park to the north. The mall was hit first.

https://www.mojevideo.sk/video/37bbf/ra ... votov.html
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charlielima223

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Unread post30 Jun 2022, 01:35

zhangmdev wrote:Kh-22 missile hit the Kremenchuk mall, barely. No secondary blast from the ammo stored there purported by the Russian MoD. Another missile hit a industrial site in the north, also barely.

https://weibo.com/6120606636/LzW6oogke? ... 001030103_

View from the park to the north. The mall was hit first.

https://www.mojevideo.sk/video/37bbf/ra ... votov.html


That because Russian military intel SUCKS and that Russia is defaulting to their primary play... indiscriminate targeting/shelling/bombardment/strikes/attacks. Attacking the civilian populace in attempts to bring them to submission.
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charlielima223

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Unread post30 Jun 2022, 01:39

The host is Mooch :applause: :thumb: but unfortunately the guest is David Axe...

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zhangmdev

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Unread post30 Jun 2022, 11:07

After repeatedly "mowing the lawn" on the Snake Island, the Russians finally decided they have had enough. The Russian defence ministry called the decision to leave the strategically important island in the Black Sea a "gesture of goodwill".

The Ukrainian military said on Telegram: "During the night, as a result of a successful military operation with our missile and artillery units on Snake Island, the enemy hastily evacuated the remnants of the garrison in two speedboats and probably left the island.

"KABOOM! No Russian troops on the Snake Island anymore. " :mrgreen:
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madrat

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Unread post30 Jun 2022, 12:19

Can you imagine if the Ukraine had kept Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 assets as an insurance policy against Moscow? We wouldn't have this mess today, as Kiev could have struck Moscow.
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ricnunes

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Unread post30 Jun 2022, 15:22

tphuang wrote:I said that half as a joke.


Ah ok.
I really missed your joke/sarcasm, sorry.
Sometimes it's indeed hard to figure a joke/sarcasm when reading posts (as opposed to speaking in person).


tphuang wrote:They are really not comparable. Ukraine is being quite innovative with how it uses commercially available product. Essentially, it turned a very slow moving and cheap commercial drone as a stealthy cruise missile. It turns out that picking up really tiny UAV at low altitude with plenty of background clutter is hard. I would think against a competent air defense with dedicated anti-drone systems, these things would get chewed up. But since Russia has such large swathes of targets and not enough modern anti-drone or EW platform around, they are actually not well set up to defend this type of threat.

And if we take it up a notch, Ukraine could buy a 1000 of this for $20 million. It would give Russia all sorts of problems if Ukraine tried to do massive drone attack on Russian soil with 1000 of these things.

The future of land warfare is quite interesting if any rebel group can just order 100 of these low tech drones off aliexpress and suddenly possess really economically damaging weapon against a country trying to run a modern economy.


Yes, I fully agree with you :thumb:
There's indeed a place for all sorts of UAV's in future (and present day) battlefields.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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ricnunes

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Unread post30 Jun 2022, 15:37

milosh wrote:@ricnunes

Mq1c is sitting duck against even older SAMs. UA don't have US sead capability so SAMs are big problem for mq1c

Mugin on other is much smaller target and cost lot less kn fact you can buy four of them for ONE missile mq1c carry.

Mugin can carry 25kg tnt and 25kg is a lot, tank crew would survive direct hit but in what shape tank nope.

Iran used something similar to attack ksa target which had couple of SAMs systems. So attack vehicles wouldn't be much different.



@milosh,

The TB2 UAV has proven not to be a sitting duck "against even older SAMs"!

The TB2 is not much smaller in size than the MQ-1C.

So, no the MQ-1C is not a sitting duck "against even older SAMs". Get over it!
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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