Russia-Ukraine War 2022

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madrat

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Unread post19 May 2022, 03:54

Ukraine force coordinate artillery fire using web-based applications. The forces are dispersed and every unit in a grid are fed the same target. The units all fire from different locations and with various ranges, pitches, and angles. What are the Russians going to return fire on? If they are lucky they may be that proverbial blind squirrel finding a nut.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post19 May 2022, 05:50

Melee between a T-80BVM and infantry. Two PRGs fired and missed. Tank returned fire, also missed. One soldier escaped. The other was not under fire. The tank survived to the end of the video. Zero infantry support for the tank, which has to actively chase the opponents down. Those ones in the trench in the beginning likely were Russians. Most extraordinary tank video so far.

https://weibo.com/1944375784/LtAexxdF4

t80bvm.jpg
tank melee
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hornetfinn

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Unread post19 May 2022, 07:20

Thank you zhangmdev, that was really incredible video... Really show how chaotic any combat situation can be. I think the tank crew was probably panicking as they are driving and shooting all over the place. It's basically a lonely tank with enemy infantry all around, so it's not easy place to be especially with likely poor training. The Russians were lucky that the Ukranians didn't manage to hit it with their anti-tank rockets.

It's really interesting how badly Russians support their tanks with infantry. Maybe it's lack of soldiers or just really bad tactics or very poor training or combination of all of these. But it definitely gives a lot of room for Ukranians to work effectively against Russian forces. The incredible number of destroyed Russian tanks really shows the Russian shortcomings when it comes to using their tanks. Even though T-64/72/80/90 are not really modern tanks, Russians are definitely using them really poorly.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post19 May 2022, 07:41

Su-25-low-level-678x381.jpg


Pretty awesome videos of two Ukrainian Su-25 working at very low altitudes:
https://theaviationist.com/2022/05/16/su-25s-flying-low-ukraine/

I think the article is too much focused on the MANPADS threat and IMO the reason for such very low altitude tactics is more to avoid Russian radar guided systems (SAMs and air-to-air missiles). Against MANPADS it would be better to fly at medium altitudes and attack from there. But then those radar guided systems would kill those Su-25s with ease.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post19 May 2022, 08:33

Creeping on a BMP from behind, shot then get away.

That T-80 probably already was hit at the snorkel area. One RPG hit was not enough to take it out. The aggressive maneuver may increase the chance of survival. It was life and death balanced on knife edge, for both sides.

final_6285e5939769f60078948037_369860.jpg
AT team
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hornetfinn

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Unread post19 May 2022, 11:22

ricnunes wrote:I fully agree with you, hornetfinn :thumb:

I would like to add the following to your excellent post:
- The main gun! Another disadvantage of those "turretless tanks"/"Heavy IFVs" is that they never carry a big caliber gun (120mm or more). Well, in fact they could carry such big caliber guns but for this they require, a turret! Which makes them, a Tank! :wink:

Anyway, such "turretless tanks"/"Heavy IFVs" can only carry in terms of guns, lighter 25mm or 30mm and even if slightly bigger guns such as 40mm guns are to be carried then that usually requires a turret as well! Guns like 25mm or 30mm are somehow limited against hardened targets such as concrete or hardened buildings or bunkers and almost "useless" against modern MBTs.
Actually the Canadians learned this the hard way in Afghanistan when they saw that the 25mm guns mounted on their LAVs weren't that effective in penetrating and killing enemies hidden inside typical Afghan mud houses. And what was the solution? To send MBTs to Afghanistan (first Leopard 1's and then Leopard 2's).

Of course one can argue that against such targets, ATGMs could be used. However ATGMs are much more expensive than 120+mm gun rounds, fly slower (and thus take longer to reach/hit the target) than those same gun rounds and most ATGMs which have SACLOS guidance requires the target to remain in the light of sight of the sight/sensor used to aim the missile or even if fire and forget ATGMS (such as the Javelin) could be used then this usually require some time for the target to be locked, a time which can considerably increase if the background where the target is on isn't favorable, or resuming the engagement time when using a 120+mm main gun is usually way faster. Resuming, Tank main guns provide a faster and cheaper while still being extremely reliable and accurate way to shoot-and-scoot against enemy targets.
As such we cannot dismiss the very big/huge importance of the 120mm gun or big caliber guns in the modern battlefield since they provides the most reliable, faster, cheaper way to destroy the widest variety of targets (ranging from groups of soldiers, to more resistant building, to bunkers and of course any kind of enemy vehicle including the heaviest armored ones) while still having a big range, a range which is comparable or even better than many/most ATGMs.

Bottom line, we cannot use the shitty (pardon my expression) Russian MBTs and even more shitty Russian tactics as an example that the "MBT is dead"!


Oh, thank you! :D

I totally agree with your post and points here. Vehicles like BMPT Terminator or T-15 Armata Heavy IFV are custom built to support tanks in urban warfare or similar situations with much better protection and at least equal or preferably superior firepower than older IFVs like BMP-2/3. Problem with these vehicles is also that they are very expensive compared to lighter IFVs and require much more fuel and maintenance/support. They are rather special equipment and I think we will most likely still have mostly turreted tanks and IFVs after 2050.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post19 May 2022, 14:11

Finally some footage on the ground of that river crossing. One tank, a bunch of old BMP and APC. Russians still deny those are theirs.

final_62863d6c71699f00897f9caa_527516.jpg
donets river crossing


Edit:

Medevac from Mariupol. Recoreded by the body camera of Ukrainian medic Yuliia Paievska, who was captured on 16 March. The data card was smuggled out by an AP journalist.

https://apnews.com/article/mariupol-med ... 8bddbe4ee4
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ricnunes

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Unread post19 May 2022, 17:51

hornetfinn wrote:
Vehicles like BMPT Terminator or T-15 Armata Heavy IFV are custom built to support tanks in urban warfare or similar situations with much better protection and at least equal or preferably superior firepower than older IFVs like BMP-2/3. Problem with these vehicles is also that they are very expensive compared to lighter IFVs and require much more fuel and maintenance/support. They are rather special equipment and I think we will most likely still have mostly turreted tanks and IFVs after 2050.


Actually, I can see some use and future prospect with something like the T-15 Armata Heavy IFV since it can carry soldiers or resuming, it can act like an APC, IFV and of course support other vehicles such as Tanks. It's a multifuncional platform which can transport troop more safely. Resuming, the T-15 should be able to perform all the roles of a BMP-2/3 while being almost as resistant as a tank.
However the BMPT Terminator is a complete waste of resources and it's IMO different from T-15 since it cannot perform the typical roles of APC/IFV since it cannot transport troops. Basically, it's a less powerful tank!

I think/believe that the Russians may be onto something their Armata series with either the Tank version, the T-14 or the heavy IFV version, the T-15 but this only if the Russians can make them work (something which I'm starting to doubt!)
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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basher54321

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Unread post19 May 2022, 17:53


Russia claims its Zadira laser weapon destroyed a drone in Ukraine
May 19

Russian armed forces have used a laser weapon against a drone in Ukraine, the Kremlin’s deputy prime minister claimed Wednesday on a local television station.

“Our physicists have developed and are now mass-producing laser systems,” Yuri Borisov said, adding this system used in Ukraine destroyed the drone “within five seconds.”

This is the first time Borisov, a senior civilian official who oversees Russia’s defense sector, has said a new weapon was used in Ukraine.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/global/eu ... n-ukraine/


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milosh

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Unread post19 May 2022, 19:17

ricnunes wrote:However the BMPT Terminator is a complete waste of resources and it's IMO different from T-15 since it cannot perform the typical roles of APC/IFV since it cannot transport troops. Basically, it's a less powerful tank!

I think/believe that the Russians may be onto something their Armata series with either the Tank version, the T-14 or the heavy IFV version, the T-15 but this only if the Russians can make them work (something which I'm starting to doubt!)


BMPT was design based on Afghanistan and Chechenia so they probalbe knew what they are doing. But from western POV or better say US combat doctrine BMPT is nonsense.

But we are not talking about US doctrine but Russian one, and that doctrine mean you don't have decent infantry support for armor, you didn't even had one in Soviet times, yes it look cool when you see something like Zapad 1981 exercise, with swarms of BMP and BTR infantry rushing from them firing AKs but in reality that want happen, conscripts will want to stay in those thin cans until they blow up.
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milosh

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Unread post19 May 2022, 19:22

zhangmdev wrote:Russian videos of using loitering ammunition and MLRS against M777 battery

https://life.ru/p/1495111
https://www.9111.ru/questions/7777777771904161/

1096444567317.984.jpg


Could be this thing:
https://external-preview.redd.it/VJdu7U ... aad47272c0

It is small uav which Smerch MLRS fire before it fired rocket salvo, nasty thing espeacilly in combo with artillery radar. It can stay in air for 30min if I remember correctly.
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ricnunes

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Unread post19 May 2022, 21:22

milosh wrote:BMPT was design based on Afghanistan and Chechenia so they probalbe knew what they are doing.


REALLY?? Haven't you been following the events in Ukraine?? You really, really believe the Russians know or ever knew what they're doing?? :doh: :doh: :doh:


milosh wrote:But from western POV or better say US combat doctrine BMPT is nonsense.

But we are not talking about US doctrine but Russian one, and that doctrine mean you don't have decent infantry support for armor, you didn't even had one in Soviet times, yes it look cool when you see something like Zapad 1981 exercise, with swarms of BMP and BTR infantry rushing from them firing AKs but in reality that want happen, conscripts will want to stay in those thin cans until they blow up.


Above the "US/Western combat doctrine" or "Russian combat doctrine" there's the right or better "combat doctrine" and bad or SHITTY "combat doctrine". And the Russian "combat doctrine" is SHITTY, period! :roll:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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zhangmdev

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Unread post19 May 2022, 22:02

Valeriy Zaluzhny: "the Russians are maintaining missile fire of high intensity, on average 10-14 ballistic and cruise missiles per day."

If the Z-force makes a cauldron of Severodonetsk, if that comes down to street fightings, those BMPT could be put into real test. Strange they were not available at Mariupol or Rubizhne. Don't think BMPT will be very useful attacking bombed out industrial complex like Azovstal.

The Soviet era exercise was a staged theatrical. The reality is the salient of Donbas was about 120 km wide, the massive attack of phase 3 has been ongoing for a month, after an inordinate amount of blood and material has been spent, still the mighty Z-force has yet to claim success, against an opponent they despise and disparage as mere militants. Don't think after this they could steamroll to Western Europe against NATO.

More US military aid:

(18) 155mm Howitzers;
(18) Tactical Vehicles to tow 155mm Howitzers;
(3) AN/TPQ-36 counter-artillery radars; and
Field equipment and spare parts.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/R ... r-ukraine/
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hornetfinn

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Unread post20 May 2022, 06:56

ricnunes wrote:Actually, I can see some use and future prospect with something like the T-15 Armata Heavy IFV since it can carry soldiers or resuming, it can act like an APC, IFV and of course support other vehicles such as Tanks. It's a multifuncional platform which can transport troop more safely. Resuming, the T-15 should be able to perform all the roles of a BMP-2/3 while being almost as resistant as a tank.
However the BMPT Terminator is a complete waste of resources and it's IMO different from T-15 since it cannot perform the typical roles of APC/IFV since it cannot transport troops. Basically, it's a less powerful tank!

I think/believe that the Russians may be onto something their Armata series with either the Tank version, the T-14 or the heavy IFV version, the T-15 but this only if the Russians can make them work (something which I'm starting to doubt!)


I think BMPT Terminator idea is really the high elevation of the autocannons while offering MBT-like protection. Basically it's designed to protect the tanks against infantry working from buildings or generally above (hills, mountains) the reach of tank guns while having much more protection than IFVs. Of course it could be used otherwise but it's still very specialized vehicle.

I agree that Armata series is a good concept but I really doubt Russia can produce enough of them to replace current vehicles in larger numbers. I think they will still use the same vehicles in 2040 as they are using now. Even without the sanctions and embargoes that whole project was not progressing very fast or well. Now the situation is a whole lot worse for Russia.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post20 May 2022, 07:27

milosh wrote:
zhangmdev wrote:Russian videos of using loitering ammunition and MLRS against M777 battery

https://life.ru/p/1495111
https://www.9111.ru/questions/7777777771904161/

1096444567317.984.jpg


Could be this thing:
https://external-preview.redd.it/VJdu7U ... aad47272c0

It is small uav which Smerch MLRS fire before it fired rocket salvo, nasty thing espeacilly in combo with artillery radar. It can stay in air for 30min if I remember correctly.


I don't think those videos show that UAV used by Smerch MLRS system. I think those videos are from some other tactical UAVs. I do think that Smerch UAV idea is pretty neat especially for counterbattery fire as it can be quickly dispatched to area of interest unlike most other UAVs.
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