SU-75 Checkmate

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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mixelflick

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Unread post21 Jan 2022, 19:32

It is quite telling that we were flying not 1 but 2 prototype ATF's far more capable than anything the Russians/Chinese can put up today. Perhaps not in avionics/weaponry, but certainly raw performance (VLO stealth, plus engines). Actually the integrated avionics back then may have even been better, tough to say given how tight lipped people are (and rightfully so).

And now with the F-35, that situation seems somewhat reversed. The sensors avionics are more impressive than its raw performance, although that's nothing to sneeze at either. Especially the engine and enhancements, which will keep it way ahead of anything else for decades to come. Assuming of course, that info isn't stolen.

Ah well, I'm looking forward to what NGAD looks like. I'm betting it'll roll out before the SU-75, and leave it looking extremely... dated. Let's just hope they learned their lesson on the F-22, and build enough of them...
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milosh

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Unread post21 Jan 2022, 21:12

There isn't really nothing quite telling. Look where China was in 1990s, their best fighter was J-8 (most advanced domestic design), look where they are now, they mass produce J-20 which probable cost them more then flyaway price of F-35!

And they surely work on next fighter.
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tphuang

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Unread post21 Jan 2022, 21:23

mixelflick wrote:It is quite telling that we were flying not 1 but 2 prototype ATF's far more capable than anything the Russians/Chinese can put up today. Perhaps not in avionics/weaponry, but certainly raw performance (VLO stealth, plus engines). Actually the integrated avionics back then may have even been better, tough to say given how tight lipped people are (and rightfully so).

And now with the F-35, that situation seems somewhat reversed. The sensors avionics are more impressive than its raw performance, although that's nothing to sneeze at either. Especially the engine and enhancements, which will keep it way ahead of anything else for decades to come. Assuming of course, that info isn't stolen.

Ah well, I'm looking forward to what NGAD looks like. I'm betting it'll roll out before the SU-75, and leave it looking extremely... dated. Let's just hope they learned their lesson on the F-22, and build enough of them...


I think there is no chance prototype ATFs from back then would have anything close to the sensors, avionics and level of situation awareness that J-20 does now. The COTS technology of today in both software and hardware is so far ahead of what was available back then. In fact, J-20 developers anticipate there to be so much technology and situation awareness advances over the next 10 years that they think 2 pilots are needed to properly exploit its capabilities.
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madrat

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Unread post22 Jan 2022, 04:09

milosh wrote:There isn't really nothing quite telling. Look where China was in 1990s, their best fighter was J-8 (most advanced domestic design), look where they are now, they mass produce J-20 which probable cost them more then flyaway price of F-35!

And they surely work on next fighter.

Xian copied Tornado's general layout although they used fixed wingd and Spey-derivative engines. J-8II was basically an equivalent to Su-15T. I'd say the JH-7A at the time was a better airframe. Not that this has anything to do with J-20, F-22, Su-75, etc.
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mixelflick

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Unread post22 Jan 2022, 20:29

In general, I think Russian aircraft are over-estimated by US intelligence, Chinese under-estimated. Not sure why, but that does seem to be the pattern. That's US intelligence BTW, not USAF/USN etc.. I'm sure if anything they're representing a threat level that exceeds the actual.

Hope we never have to find out.

As for the SU-75, I doubt they spend much time on it. Until it's flying/in service, there are bigger problems to worry about.
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basher54321

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Unread post19 May 2022, 14:09

Serial production of the Su-75 Checkmate light fighter will begin in 2027. This was announced on Wednesday, May 18, at a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin by the head of Rostec Sergey Chemezov.

https://iz.ru/1336288/2022-05-18/v-rost ... -checkmate


Good luck meeting that deadline :D
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mixelflick

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Unread post20 May 2022, 17:07

basher54321 wrote:
Serial production of the Su-75 Checkmate light fighter will begin in 2027. This was announced on Wednesday, May 18, at a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin by the head of Rostec Sergey Chemezov.

https://iz.ru/1336288/2022-05-18/v-rost ... -checkmate


Good luck meeting that deadline :D


Exactly.

These kind of announcements continue the pattern of Russian propoganda, which has been laid bare in Ukraine. They have no so called "wonder weapons". Interesting technology demonstrators perhaps, but nothing more. From their super tanks (T-80/90 turrents being blown sky high) to Flankers of various sorts falling from the heavens - the gig is up. On the ground, in the air and in the sea - they've been embarrassed in every arena. Even when their equipment has obvious value (SU-35, air to air) its employment and/or lack of related factors (such as no dedicated SEAD platforms) renders it impotent for its intended purpose. Ukranian Mig-29's, SU-25's and 27's etc are still flying. Ukranian air defense batteries and MANPADs still operate. As a result, Russia can't secure the airspace above the battlefield. Hell, they can't even secure and hold the battlefield itself!

Even IF the SU-75 rolled off production lines tomorrow, its unclear how that might help them. Some stealth beats no stealth I guess, but without targeting pods and PGM's... it still has to fly at low altitude to hit its target. Success seems limited to long range cruise missile strikes launched from TU-95's, 22's and perhaps TU-160's operating from inside Russia. But even that is suspect, given reports of very high rates of innacuracy. By some counts they've fired over 2,000 guided missiles at Ukraine - and Ukraine's C3 assets are still intact. What will it take, 2,000 more? Do they even have 2,000 more??

It's frightening really, because the one thing Putin does have (that he knows will work) are..... nukes. Sincerely hope he isn't that foolish, but his health as I understand it is, complex. The best course of action now is to cut their losses, maybe lie about what they did accomplish (they're going to lie anyway, so why not you know?) and try to re-build. Tell you what though, I wouldn't wanna be the guy presenting "lessons learned" from the conflict (to anyone, especially Vlad). There just isn't enough vodka in Russia, to put a happy face on this one..
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pron

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Unread post20 May 2022, 19:22

basher54321 wrote:
Serial production of the Su-75 Checkmate light fighter will begin in 2027. This was announced on Wednesday, May 18, at a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin by the head of Rostec Sergey Chemezov.

https://iz.ru/1336288/2022-05-18/v-rost ... -checkmate


Good luck meeting that deadline :D

Yea, it sure sounds just like everything else that they come up with. It's just lies and wishful thinking.

How can they produce a modern fighter when they can't even make a modern car?
Sanctions Send Russia’s Car Industry Back to the 80s.

A shortage of electronic components, together with stringent Western sanctions have sent Russia’s automotive industry back to the late 80s, with local carmakers now authorized to ignore Emissions standards and no longer obligated to fit their vehicles with important safety kit such as airbags, ESP, ABS or even seat belt pretensioners. :doh:

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/sanc ... 88967.html
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