Russian F-35 equivalent at MAKS 2021?

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

XanderCrews

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7287
  • Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 19:42
  • Warnings: 1

Unread post20 Jul 2021, 22:24

edpop wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-unveiled-checkmate-fighter-jet-174059046.html


>wooden Mock up

>"The Russian president hailed the creation as an example of Russia's aviation industry prowess."


what do I do if the laughter lasts longer than four hours? :lmao:
Choose Crews
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 26209
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post20 Jul 2021, 22:48

XanderCrews wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
mixelflick wrote:['ZANDER' quote]Same here, grew up near a used book store in 1990s. The shelves were loaded with books on the USSR and its military and gobbled up and still have many of them. Utterly fascinated by Russian gear, and I think aesthetically Russians/soviets just got some real gems. Flankers actually look better than all the cool 1980s guess work art that came out, which almost never happens. when I saw that Nova special in the mid 1990s I thought I might pass out from excitement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyQsEqEG3lE

all those grainy pictures in my books come to life.

Just in a GRAINY VOL II Illumination on MiG-21 (somewhere on this website will be VOL 1) for the bookstores...
" http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/20 ... g-21f.html
Vol II report on the Project Have Doughnut - America’s Mig-21F testing. Report No. DIA FTD-CR-20-13-69-INT. Dated 1 August 1969 https://www.docdroid.com/FGkHt9L/projec ... ig-21e-pdf (21Mb)

MiG-21 Pilot OPs PDF: http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/20 ... ating.html
PHOTOS: http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/20 ... oject.html
Attachments
MiG-21 BIS.gif
Last edited by spazsinbad on 20 Jul 2021, 23:07, edited 2 times in total.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

awsome

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 189
  • Joined: 17 Dec 2008, 03:11
  • Location: vancouver

Unread post20 Jul 2021, 22:59

XanderCrews wrote:
edpop wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-unveiled-checkmate-fighter-jet-174059046.html


>wooden Mock up

>"The Russian president hailed the creation as an example of Russia's aviation industry prowess."


what do I do if the laughter lasts longer than four hours? :lmao:



Yeah I have asked the same question after watching your "president" try to climb stairs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UfsqZ1T6E8
Offline
User avatar

XanderCrews

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7287
  • Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 19:42
  • Warnings: 1

Unread post20 Jul 2021, 23:09

awsome wrote:

Yeah I have asked the same question after watching your "president" try to climb stairs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UfsqZ1T6E8


I like how you have president in quotes, too

Image

spazsinbad wrote:Just in a GRAINY VOL II Illumination on MiG-21 (somewhere on this website will be VOL 1) for the bookstores...
" http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/20 ... g-21f.html
Vol II report on the Project Have Doughnut - America’s Mig-21F testing. Report No. DIA FTD-CR-20-13-69-INT. Dated 1 August 1969 https://www.docdroid.com/FGkHt9L/projec ... ig-21e-pdf (21Mb)
[/quote]
MiG-21 Pilot OPs PDF: http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/20 ... ating.html
PHOTOS: http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/20 ... oject.html[/quote]


hahaha

Image
Choose Crews
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7698
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post20 Jul 2021, 23:56

edpop wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-unveiled-checkmate-fighter-jet-174059046.html




LOL :roll:


QUOTE: The plane was designed by Sukhoi, part of Rostec, for the light tactical aircraft program. It is expected to make its maiden flight in 2023 with fielding starting in 2026.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7698
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post21 Jul 2021, 00:00

mixelflick wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
mixelflick wrote:It is interesting how both Russia and China erred (IMO) by developing their twin engined heavy fighters first.

Like the F-15 before the F-16? or the F-22 before the F-35? I'm just curious why you think it was an error on the part of Russia and China when the US has an established record of the same thing.

*Edit* Big difference being that both the F-15 and F-22 ushered in new advances in propulsion technology and the F-16 and F-35 piggy-backed off those advances. The Su-57 and J-20 both use old engines as they wait for new tech to develop. In this sense, as pointed out before and generally agreed upon, there is no way to build a competitive stealth plane on a single Flanker engine. So it seems they were correct in going twin first.


The game has changed since the 1980's/90's. The difference of course, is that building, fielding and going to war with 2 5th gen aircraft is prohibitively expensive - even for the US and China. Russia? It's questionable whether they can afford to build the 76 SU-57 they want, nevermind both. With a GDP of what, Italy?

This Checkmate is far from certain, but is a far less ambitious product (and de-facto, probably would have had a smoother development) with much greater export potential. As such, it would have been the better bet 10 years ago.



Russia can't afford to buy either the Su-57 Stealth Fighter or T-14 Main Battle Tank in any real numbers. So, hard to see how they could afford to get the Checkmate into service in any real numbers. While, seriously competing with the F-35 in the process!

Sounds more like the usual "smoke and mirrors" from Putin....
Offline
User avatar

element1loop

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1804
  • Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 05:35
  • Location: Australia

Unread post21 Jul 2021, 00:39

mixelflick wrote:Max range - 3000km.
Max load - 7400kg
Max alt - 16500m
Max G - 8 (strangely low for Russian plane).


Max range - 3000km = 1,620 nm
Max load - 7400kg = 16,300 lb
Max alt - 16500m = 54,133 ft
Max G - 8 (strangely low for Russian plane) = perhaps no TVC, keeps price down, and we all know 8G will get it done if not using guns.

That does seek to compete with F-35 kinematics and payload.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
Offline
User avatar

element1loop

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1804
  • Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 05:35
  • Location: Australia

Unread post21 Jul 2021, 00:41

Image
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7698
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post21 Jul 2021, 00:54

(LOL) :lmao:



QUOTE: Performance-wise, the manufacturer is apparently claiming a short takeoff and landing capability (rather than a full short takeoff and vertical landing capability, as in the F-35B), a range of up to 1,860 miles, combat radius of 930 miles, and a payload in excess of 15,000 pounds.


Also, sounds like they're looking for funding.....


QUOTE: The "projected" timeline for the LTS includes the first flight of a technology demonstrator in 2023, followed by construction of pre-series prototypes in 2024-25, and delivery of initial production examples potentially as early as 2026-27. All this, however, depends on first securing the funds to continue the project. With that in mind, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov was in a bullish mood at MAKS, claiming that the core markets would be India, Vietnam, and in Africa, and projecting global demand for 300 examples of the fighter.


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... id=fbshare
Offline
User avatar

element1loop

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1804
  • Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 05:35
  • Location: Australia

Unread post21 Jul 2021, 01:14

XanderCrews wrote:The SU-57 is a great looking plane, but like others have observed some might take this new fighter as a kind of admittance and white flag on the PAKFA program. I'm not trying to be overly critical, my point is simply they should have done the limited, less expensive light fighter first. They took a 10 year mulligan with PAKFA. now theyre late to the party. I know there will be 1000 excuses for this, but they botched the timeline. and now the market got snatched up. Theyre also now competing against other JSF/F-35 class/clones.


I do agree, I see PAK-FA as inertia with Soviet roots when ATF was a thing, then was never rationalized away from a Flanker formula. Got to remember how broke the Russians were in the 2000 to 2005 period before oil prices rose sharply into the US subprime crisis. They were lucky to get the Sukhoi company to survive the post Soviet era, let alone invest in a second 5th-gen when they were coming from flanker outlook and no new singles for a long time. Unreliable low-power engines plus protracted lack of investment in them being another excuse. RuAF could barely afford fuel to fly over 20 hours per year until about 2005. The twin should have got side-lined much earlier and I never believed they'd go all-in on Su57 alone, and was looking for this sort of design to pop up much earlier. If they had sunk the Su57 money into engine tech, they may have got there much sooner but would Sukhoi have survived? As you say, lots of excuses for getting it wrong, but I'm not sure they would have got far until 2015 anyway.

I did foresee and also did say openly in about 2005 that RuAF would new-build the Flankers and new MiG29 fleet, first. Boy, did I get laughed at for that, but it came true because what else could they do until they produced an F-35-ski design based on an engine in hand that could make one work? Ideally they never should have bothered with Su57 but they did advance the engine tech anyway, mostly due to embarrassment. Nothing like watching a montage of stalled Flankers belly-flopping at airshows.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
Offline
User avatar

element1loop

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1804
  • Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 05:35
  • Location: Australia

Unread post21 Jul 2021, 01:19

Looks to me like the front gear could fold forward toward the inlet, which provides more space behind it for decent length weapon bay.

i.e. a centerline splitter in the inlet opening is really a wedge for diverting air ducts either side of a longer, larger and deeper central bay, which splitter divergence also makes room for a forward sweeping front gear storage, then air ducts pass by the bay and converge behind it to enter the engine. Which I think explains the girth and the main gear stowage.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 7698
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post21 Jul 2021, 01:31

This is nothing more than a "concept". Which, Russia could develop if they can find a partner to "fund" it.......



In short some should have read the fine print......... :wink:
Offline

madrat

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3074
  • Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 03:12

Unread post21 Jul 2021, 01:50

I doubt Russia can afford to export these for less than $70 million apiece with Al-41 and not less than $80 million with Al-51 and decked out with an EOTS equivalent.
Offline
User avatar

steve2267

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2925
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2016, 17:36

Unread post21 Jul 2021, 02:07

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.


India will think hard before helping to fund another Russian wunderplane.

Vietnam strikes me as pragmatic and shrewd. They will look at the history of the Su-57, Russian, and India... I doubt Vietnam helps fund the program. Though they might buy it if it became available.

Is it Indonesia or Malaysia that has the Mig-29's falling apart can cannot keep them in flying order? With used F-16's available seemingly anywhere, new F-16V's available with decent AESA 'dar, Saab constantly dingling their bells, Dassault with their Rafale's for sale pretty much anywhere, and this new Korean jet under development... why would a nation buy this aircraft?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 26209
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post21 Jul 2021, 02:30

But But BUTT the 'good onya mate cheque' is ready for flight test doncha know (quote in video clip attached).
Attachments

New. Lightweight. SUKHOI. Ready for Flight Test Boast 20 Jul 2021.mp4 [ 2.86 MiB | Viewed 483 times ]

Last edited by spazsinbad on 21 Jul 2021, 02:33, edited 1 time in total.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
PreviousNext

Return to Modern Military Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 42 guests