Russian F-35 equivalent at MAKS 2021?

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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mixelflick

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Unread post14 Jul 2021, 14:10

I know this has been discussed as vaporware elsewhere, but thoughts on this story?

https://hushkit.net/

"TASS has announced that Russia’s latest fighter aircraft will be unveiled, and, indeed, demonstrated, at the MAKS-2021 show on July 20. We consider what this might mean and what the configuration of the circulating images reveals."

The war zone also has something curious up about it, but it's decidedly more tongue in cheek..

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... tic-teaser

Does the LMFS really exist, or is this more akin to cryptozoology?
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XanderCrews

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Unread post14 Jul 2021, 19:20

mixelflick wrote:I know this has been discussed as vaporware elsewhere, but thoughts on this story?

https://hushkit.net/

"TASS has announced that Russia’s latest fighter aircraft will be unveiled, and, indeed, demonstrated, at the MAKS-2021 show on July 20. We consider what this might mean and what the configuration of the circulating images reveals."

The war zone also has something curious up about it, but it's decidedly more tongue in cheek..

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... tic-teaser

Does the LMFS really exist, or is this more akin to cryptozoology?



who cares? even if its at the airshow, what does it matter?

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jetblast16

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basher54321

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Unread post14 Jul 2021, 21:35

Wait till the 20th July I guess.
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Unread post15 Jul 2021, 09:23

Yes, a lot of wild speculation going on............let's wait until MAKS 2021 and see what information Russia provides on the aircraft/program!

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mixelflick

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Unread post15 Jul 2021, 14:43

XanderCrews wrote:
mixelflick wrote:I know this has been discussed as vaporware elsewhere, but thoughts on this story?

https://hushkit.net/

"TASS has announced that Russia’s latest fighter aircraft will be unveiled, and, indeed, demonstrated, at the MAKS-2021 show on July 20. We consider what this might mean and what the configuration of the circulating images reveals."

The war zone also has something curious up about it, but it's decidedly more tongue in cheek..

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... tic-teaser

Does the LMFS really exist, or is this more akin to cryptozoology?



who cares? even if its at the airshow, what does it matter?

Image


I do! :mrgreen:

Speculation is fun, even if the odds aren't good that this is really going to be something truly "new". Still, they are promising big things so this better not be more re-hashed hash (cough, Mig-35). They've supposedly invited every foreign country that might be interested in buying these things (if it's real). That, and it wouldn't be the first time US intelligence has completely missed a new airframe Russia/China is working on.

Methinks it might be a flying demonstrator/prototype looking for.... foreign dollars to develop its "potential". They do likely have a lot of the SU-57 tech to leverage, albeit I don't believe half of what I read concerning that. Still, things like a more powerful engine, better radar, more robust EW suite etc. might be at a stage where they could use it in this bird.

Not talked about and frequently overlooked is that almost 1/3rd of the Russian fighter fleet is still flying Mig-29's. They're not going to last forever, and they're certainly not going to be replaced 1:1 with SU-57's. Plus, operating souped up Flankers has to be expensive. If another country can pump more $ into this, the price of oil stays high and the rest of the stars align, there's a possibility (however slight) this may happen IMO.

Of course, its 20 years too late and a tacit admission to the fact they erred in building the SU-57... when they should have pursued an F-35 like sized fighter in the first place.
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milosh

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Unread post15 Jul 2021, 17:25

mixelflick wrote:Not talked about and frequently overlooked is that almost 1/3rd of the Russian fighter fleet is still flying Mig-29's. They're not going to last forever, and they're certainly not going to be replaced 1:1 with SU-57's. Plus, operating souped up Flankers has to be expensive. If another country can pump more $ into this, the price of oil stays high and the rest of the stars align, there's a possibility (however slight) this may happen IMO.

Of course, its 20 years too late and a tacit admission to the fact they erred in building the SU-57... when they should have pursued an F-35 like sized fighter in the first place.


Couple of things needed to happen to this fighter became reality.

First they needed to get AL-51 it is more less done.

Second there need to be domestic need for such fighter, RuAF isn't in such need becuase Su-35 is dirt cheap and will get huge upgrade in 2020s, but Russian navy would be quite interested because future carriers will be more in size as USS America:
https://navalpost.com/russia-unveils-ne ... er-design/

And only choice they have is MiG-29K which isn't some choice.

Third and probable most important it foreign partner with money, and it look like it was UAE. Teaser video hints that. Russia didn't invest in program as we know, and their economy wasn't fine in last couple of years so I really doubt they had some black fund for this project.
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mixelflick

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Unread post15 Jul 2021, 19:11

What do you consider "dirt cheap" when referencing the SU-35. Perhaps by American/Western standards?

It can't be cheap to operate, at least not compared to newer Mig-29's, 35's or certainly the previous generation of Migs (23's, 21's or perhaps even 25's)? I can see Mig-31 costing more to operate, a lot more.

But I'm curious.... what is dirt cheap in your opinion?
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Unread post15 Jul 2021, 19:58

Russia’s newest fighter jet spotted near Moscow

Russian next-generation single-engine fighter jet has been spotted at the Zhukovsky International Airport outside Moscow on Wednesday, July 15.

The pictures first began to circulate on social media on Jul. 15, 2021, but it is unclear this is a mock-up of a future fighter or real prototype.

Just this week, Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC, part of the state tech corporation Rostec) reported that it plans to unveil the new military aircraft on the first day of the MAKS-2021 international aerospace show...

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https://defence-blog.com/russias-newest ... ar-moscow/
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milosh

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Unread post15 Jul 2021, 20:50

mixelflick wrote:What do you consider "dirt cheap" when referencing the SU-35. Perhaps by American/Western standards?

It can't be cheap to operate, at least not compared to newer Mig-29's, 35's or certainly the previous generation of Migs (23's, 21's or perhaps even 25's)? I can see Mig-31 costing more to operate, a lot more.

But I'm curious.... what is dirt cheap in your opinion?


Price. Russia get them for less then 30 millions dollars per plane. MiG-35 would cost more and using MiG-35 isn't really cheaper it is still two engine design.

Yes it use less fuel and maybe have some newer avionics which are more reliable but Su-35 shared lot of parts with other Flankers so it have noticeable quantity advantage in spare parts.
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Unread post16 Jul 2021, 01:52

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NewRussianFighterJul2021.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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mixelflick

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Unread post16 Jul 2021, 13:50

More pics, these from Hushkit's updated story just now..

It certainly looks F-35ish, at least from the front. From the rear, clearly a round engine nozzle although they say thrust vectoring is included (what else, LOL). From the side, tough to say given the black tarp over the thing. It almost appears pregnant and first thoughts were that those were simply the weapons bay doors being open. But the bulge is too far back for that to be the case IMO.

Also tough to say whether any horizontal stabilizers are used, at least I couldn't see any. Doesn't appear to have a canard of any sort, although I suppose it could be retractable. More likely I think would be LEVCON's, ala the SU-57 but who knows. Every extra bell and whistle is going to add weight/cost, so they had to have compromised somewhere. Interesting as it is, it has a long way to go. Without foreign investors and at least several buyers, its tough to see this becoming a reality.

Might end up like the stillborn SU-47...
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Last edited by mixelflick on 16 Jul 2021, 13:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post16 Jul 2021, 13:55

The sincerest form of flattery
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mixelflick

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Unread post16 Jul 2021, 14:03

Not unusual though for stealth jets, or at least jets trying to be LO/VLO. You could say the same about many other designs, like the South Korean KC-FX or whatever they call it, Japanse concepts for the F-3 etc.. Twin tails canted outward, intakes flaring off the chines, the chines themselves.

Every country has their spin on it I suppose. I guess we'll find out the 20th...
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Unread post16 Jul 2021, 15:28

Cross between F-35 and YF-23. The new fighter designs pay homage to the F-22/23, 20-30 years late.
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