Russia is,developing a light weight stealth fighter

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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milosh

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Unread post15 Aug 2021, 12:00

It is upgraded&modified Su-35 cockpit:
Image

Which is already used in Su-57. Russians (Soviets) like to have similar cockpits in different fighters.

F-35 cockpit don't have HUD nor any other display expect one big wide display (in past it was two displays with bezel). F-35 pilot got lot of info on its HMD.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post16 Aug 2021, 04:45

They haven't even built a single prototype let alone a production aircraft. So, much of what we hear is pure speculation....
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mixelflick

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Unread post16 Aug 2021, 14:52

milosh wrote:It is upgraded&modified Su-35 cockpit:
Image

Which is already used in Su-57. Russians (Soviets) like to have similar cockpits in different fighters.

F-35 cockpit don't have HUD nor any other display expect one big wide display (in past it was two displays with bezel). F-35 pilot got lot of info on its HMD.


That's a very neat, clean cockpit design... especially when compared to older Russian (and even western) types. Reportedly, the Indians and other air arms appreciate the commonality between at least some of the Russian types. They do the best they can, but a comparison to the F-35's cockpit/HMD features is striking. US always seems to be one step ahead, although it remains to be seen what kind of cockpit/integrated avionics/helmet tech the Chinese will be using.

So much of this is mass production and training/practice. It's comparatively easy to build a few prototypes, quite another to mass produce a truly VLO design (or even LO). The SU-57 is a great example... they don't seem to be able to make more than a few copies/month. At this rate it'll take many years to reach critical mass and then you need to train/drill with the stuff to make sure everything works. That assumes the pilot is well trained too, obviously.

As well, they'll have to train foreign pilots to become proficient in it. Something they've done before yes, but never on a LO or VLO aircraft and its weapons systems..
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Fox1

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Unread post25 Aug 2021, 06:17

In terms of being stealthy, this mock-up certainly seems superior to the Su-57 Felon. But outside of that, it appears corners are being cut with nearly everything else. If they could have combined the stealthy characteristics of this design with the overall performance and capability of the Su-57 design, they'd probably have a decent fighter. But this new design, it just appears to have too many shortcomings in a bid to make it affordable and cheap to operate. It is like a Russian version of the Gripen. It will probably end up having similar export success too, which is to say, nothing to write home about.
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milosh

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Unread post25 Aug 2021, 15:46

Fox1 wrote:In terms of being stealthy, this mock-up certainly seems superior to the Su-57 Felon. But outside of that, it appears corners are being cut with nearly everything else. If they could have combined the stealthy characteristics of this design with the overall performance and capability of the Su-57 design, they'd probably have a decent fighter. But this new design, it just appears to have too many shortcomings in a bid to make it affordable and cheap to operate. It is like a Russian version of the Gripen. It will probably end up having similar export success too, which is to say, nothing to write home about.


Biggest difference is S-duct which LTS have.

Su-57 don't have S-duct because Sukhoi doesn't know to make one but it doesn't have one so it can have two big weapon bays. S-duct would eat one of bays, as we saw in case of Su-47 testbed:
https://preview.redd.it/u4mnrskvif111.j ... c509aaf25c

So if you want S-duct fighter with Su-57 capabilities it would be lot more expensive, and it wouldn't be agle as Su-57 because it would weight more (probable noticable more).

So LTS is in fact what they really need. I made mistake earlier when I thought they will only accept single engine stealth when they have something like F135 and it would cost a lot, for example similar price tag as Su-35 which would non stealth guys in RuAF made quite pissed.

Nope. They decide to build stealth around AL-41, and that is why they cut corners. Still it have use in RuAF even if it mediocre performer it is ideal to replace MiG-29 for which they don't have adequate replacement, MiG-35 is quite costly and still have problems (I like to point out MiG-35 when Russia stronk guys pissing on JSF development).
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RMR_22

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Unread post25 Aug 2021, 23:17



This video of the presentation is interesting because at 3:40 you can see an image of the duct from behind the cockpit to the engine, and at 6:27 from the intake to the same point behind the cockpit as before.

In Paint i did this:

Image
Image


Not the most accurate render, but the official. The duct is better than SU-57(very easy...), but worse than F-22/35
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Corsair1963

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Unread post25 Aug 2021, 23:40

milosh wrote:
So if you want S-duct fighter with Su-57 capabilities it would be lot more expensive, and it wouldn't be agle as Su-57 because it would weight more (probable noticable more).

So LTS is in fact what they really need. I made mistake earlier when I thought they will only accept single engine stealth when they have something like F135 and it would cost a lot, for example similar price tag as Su-35 which would non stealth guys in RuAF made quite pissed.

Nope. They decide to build stealth around AL-41, and that is why they cut corners. Still it have use in RuAF even if it mediocre performer it is ideal to replace MiG-29 for which they don't have adequate replacement, MiG-35 is quite costly and still have problems (I like to point out MiG-35 when Russia stronk guys pissing on JSF development).



Clearly, Russia should have pursued the original Mikoyan LMFS instead of the PAK-FA. (Su-57) Which, would have had far more export potential and could have been produced in good numbers.

Yet, that is spilled milk and now they really don't have the resources to develop the Checkmate. That is unless they can find a partner or partners. Which, isn't looking good......
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mixelflick

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Unread post26 Aug 2021, 14:52

Milosh, can you please clarify this statement?

So LTS is in fact what they really need. I made mistake earlier when I thought they will only accept single engine stealth when they have something like F135 and it would cost a lot, for example similar price tag as Su-35 which would non stealth guys in RuAF made quite pissed.

Are you saying here the Russian AF is not pleased with the SU-35? If so, that's contrary to everything I've read. "The pinnacle of dogfighters", "the ultimate refinement of the Flanker series", "able to take on the F-22 and F-35 head to head and win". These are all quotes (I'm paraphrasing, but it's essentially what's been said) by Russian sources.

And yet, we hear now most of the new $ is going into bringing SU-30's up to a near SU-35 standard, right? Same engines, same radar etc as in the SU-35. We've also heard reports out of China their J-10's trounced their SU-35's in simulated combat. Has the RuAF lost confidence in the SU-35? And if so, does this mean that up-rated SU-30's are the future backbone of the RuAF?

If that's true, where does this leave the SU-35? Your take on what will happen both in Russia and outside of it (export orders), would be appreciated..
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Unread post26 Aug 2021, 17:56

They likely will pair Su-35 up with Su-30SM where the two-seat spots and the Su-35 prosecutes. Russian doctrine, like the Soviets, is based on destroyers not cruisers. Destroyers operate in packs. Cruisers act independent.
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milosh

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Unread post26 Aug 2021, 19:29

mixelflick wrote:And yet, we hear now most of the new $ is going into bringing SU-30's up to a near SU-35 standard, right? Same engines, same radar etc as in the SU-35. We've also heard reports out of China their J-10's trounced their SU-35's in simulated combat. Has the RuAF lost confidence in the SU-35? And if so, does this mean that up-rated SU-30's are the future backbone of the RuAF?

If that's true, where does this leave the SU-35? Your take on what will happen both in Russia and outside of it (export orders), would be appreciated..


Su-30 and probable Su-34 will use lot of Su-35 tech it isn't like they aren't pleased with Su-35 but because of logistical reasons.

Why to have couple radars and engines for fighters of same family.
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Unread post26 Aug 2021, 22:13

milosh wrote:
mixelflick wrote:And yet, we hear now most of the new $ is going into bringing SU-30's up to a near SU-35 standard, right? Same engines, same radar etc as in the SU-35. We've also heard reports out of China their J-10's trounced their SU-35's in simulated combat. Has the RuAF lost confidence in the SU-35? And if so, does this mean that up-rated SU-30's are the future backbone of the RuAF?

If that's true, where does this leave the SU-35? Your take on what will happen both in Russia and outside of it (export orders), would be appreciated..


Su-30 and probable Su-34 will use lot of Su-35 tech it isn't like they aren't pleased with Su-35 but because of logistical reasons.

Why to have couple radars and engines for fighters of same family.

Su-30SM will utilize Su-35 radar tech, not use same radar. The whole point of Su-30SM was to give tactical units a strategic-level radar option (e.g. MiG-31 class) on their Su-27 airframes. Going to an Su-35 radar would be counterproductive. But using a frontend with technology on par with an Su-35 is a big enhancement to an operational platform.

Only its about 25 years too late.
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milosh

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Unread post27 Aug 2021, 18:28

madrat wrote:Su-30SM will utilize Su-35 radar tech, not use same radar. The whole point of Su-30SM was to give tactical units a strategic-level radar option (e.g. MiG-31 class) on their Su-27 airframes. Going to an Su-35 radar would be counterproductive. But using a frontend with technology on par with an Su-35 is a big enhancement to an operational platform.


In 1990s, Russia couldn't MiG-31 fleet to be really operational and couldn't afford PESA upgrade for Flankers so they came with idea of Su-30M which would command and guide Su-27s, they would need only one plane with PESA radar and RIO would be commander of formation sending commands over datalink which formation commander did in 1980s but he also need to fly his Flanker.

But then in 2000s, economical situation changed a lot, they decided to build "super" Flanker for their AF (before they offer it only to others, in form of Su-37). They put best possible domestic radar for Flanker in Su-35.

So Su-30SM is getting same radar:

https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/3 ... su-30sm-be

Su-30M/SM is more like F-15E then some strategic level fighter for RuAF. Btw MiG-31 fleet is now flying (didn't in 1990s) which is one more reason not to make some kind of strategic level Flanker, maybe in future Su-57 could be that for other Flankers but it is still far from mass production.
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Unread post14 Nov 2021, 15:27

Some four months since it was officially unveiled, another glut of promotional material has been released relating to the Sukhoi Checkmate ahead of its official foreign debut at the Dubai Airshow next week. Also known as the Light Tactical Aircraft, or LTS in Russian, what we've seen now reveals a fighter that’s substantially bigger than we might have imagined, at least in comparison to the Su-57 Felon. Seeing the two planes alongside each other provides our best view so far of the enigmatic Checkmate fighter project and evidence that this is really more of a medium fighter than a true light combat jet.


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... -really-is.

Su-57 and Checkmate.jpg
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Unread post14 Nov 2021, 20:07

Of course it look bigger from top when it use same wings as Su-57. From front it isn't big at all.
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Unread post15 Nov 2021, 00:30

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