J-31/J-35 Engine

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

jessmo112

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 513
  • Joined: 16 Mar 2020, 02:09

Unread post07 Oct 2021, 02:33

milosh wrote:
jessmo112 wrote:I can't wait for them to try and get this Turkey off a deck with a useful load. From what I remember it needed AB just to stay level years ago. Putting it on a carrier won't make it lighter.


It wouldn't use old engines, domestic WS-19 is expected to be +100kN engine, and they have backup option Russian RD-93MA which is +90kN engine.

For comparsion F-14A use TF30 which was only 93kN engine, so J-35 with RD-93MA would have similar thurst as F-14A but would be lighter. With decent catapult there isn't any problem for J-35 to be used from carrier.[/quote

90N in full AB?! I guess If rocks had afterburner you could also launch them from a carrier. And that's just 1 problem that China must solve. All of these AB launches will burn a lot of gas. Does China have a solution for organic tanking, and always yet? Your launching and entire squadron in AB, that's going to require a lot of organic tanking.]
Offline

madrat

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3189
  • Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 03:12

Unread post07 Oct 2021, 04:01

When you get to 30,000 feet I'm not so sure your RD33/93 is going to be so equal to a TF30.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 8037
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post07 Oct 2021, 06:16

madrat wrote:When you get to 30,000 feet I'm not so sure your RD33/93 is going to be so equal to a TF30.


The problem with the TF-30 was rapid throttle changes and compressor stall. Honestly, the engine was never planned for a fighter and was a stop-gap engine in the case of the F-14 Tomcat.
Offline

tphuang

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 97
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 02:42

Unread post07 Oct 2021, 12:57

they are not going to use RD33/93. I will be WS-21 (the renamed WS-13E) or WS-19 later. Of course, the engine is going to have a lot of problems in the beginning, but better to do that with your own engine than someone else's engine. China is not going to fund further Russian aeroengine projects.
Offline

milosh

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1512
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
  • Location: Serbia, Belgrade

Unread post07 Oct 2021, 19:50

I use it as option B if WS-13/19 is delayed again. JF-17 Block 3 was expected to have WS-13 but it will have RD-93MA.

So even with option B, fully loaded J-35 wouldn't lack thrust to take off from CATOBAR carrier which Type 003 carrier is.
Offline

jessmo112

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 513
  • Joined: 16 Mar 2020, 02:09

Unread post07 Oct 2021, 21:00

Like I said earlier it's 90kn in full ab. Using full reheat for every takeoff has its own problems. Which plane will serve as organic buddy tanker? Is the J-15 capable? Does it have the plumbing? If you need AB at every take off, will you need a buddy tanker for every sortie?
Offline

madrat

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3189
  • Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 03:12

Unread post07 Oct 2021, 21:04

jessmo112 wrote:Like I said earlier it's 90kn in full ab. Using full reheat for every takeoff has its own problems. Which plane will serve as organic buddy tanker? Is the J-15 capable? Does it have the plumbing? If you need AB at every take off, will you need a buddy tanker for every sortie?


Perhaps not, but they already have to have ASR in the air during recovery. So fuel burn from AB is moot.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 8037
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post21 Oct 2021, 05:39

China to show the world its future carrier-borne fighter before the end of the year

Por Gastón Dubois


China will unveil its next-generation carrier-borne fighter jet before the end of 2021, AVIC (Aviation Industry Corp of China) said during this year’s Zhuhai Air Show.

Once the new aircraft is ready for its debut flight, it will appear in front of all of you and also on the Internet. So take it easy and wait. You will be able to see it before the end of the year,» said Sun Cong, chairman of the Chinese Aeronautical Establishment and academician of the Chinese Academy of Engineering.

According to China’s official state news, Mr. Sun Cong made the remarks at a press conference held Wednesday in Zhuhai during the 13th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, popularly known as the Zhuhai Air Show.

Sun was the chief designer of China’s first carrier-borne fighter, the J-15, and second stealth fighter, the J-31/FC-31 (FC is the export designation). It was the first statement by anyone from AVIC about the possible timing of the new aircraft’s public appearance.

According to its designers, the Shenyang J-31/FC-31 has a high survivability rate, thanks to its low radar signature (when carrying only internal armament) and a powerful advanced electronic countermeasures complex. It also possesses high information gathering and handling capability, which grants the pilot excellent situational awareness and excels in its beyond visual range combat capability.

In addition to aerial combat, it can also perform strike missions against ground and maritime targets, using a diverse range of smart munitions.

The aircraft has a large weapons compartment under the fuselage with an estimated payload of 2,268 kg (5.000 pounds) and can carry several external missiles, in 3 hardpoints under each wing.

Powered by a pair of WS-13E engines (replacing the Klimov RD-93s previously used, the same one that powers the JF-17), according to AVIC, the J-31/FC-31 has a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of 28 metric tons, an operational ceiling of 15 kilometers (49.200 ft) and a maximum speed of Mach 1.8, or 2,205 kilometers per hour, with an estimated range of 2,000 km (1.242 m).

Originally, the fighter, developed by Shenyang on its own, did not attract the interest of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), which preferred to focus its efforts on the J-20, so the company decided to give its product an export profile.

Eventually, it was the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) that took notice of the model and began funding its development, to complement its J-15 carrier-borne heavy fighters currently operating on the CNS Liaoning and CNS Shandong aircraft carriers, but particularly for its future Type 003 nuclear-powered, catapult-launched aircraft carrier, currently under construction.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/09/ch ... XEpsAMPmqo

QUOTE: A model of a stealth fighter jet is seen in the official media of China Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC). The Aviation Industry Corporation of China's (AVIC) just announced that China's new carrier-borne stealth fighter will be unveiled this year. #Zhuhai2021

J35C.jpg


J35B.jpg


J35A.jpg
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4599
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post23 Oct 2021, 14:50

So are we sure it's going to be the J-31/35?

Given past US intelligence failures, I wouldn't be surprised to see an entirely new design. All this talk about the J-31/35 being underpowered etc., it almost leads me to believe they may have gone in another direction. It just seems odd that all of a sudden, all of these problems were magically solved and boom - we're ready for full scale production?

I suppose its possible, but we'll all find out soon enough.
Offline

tphuang

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 97
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2018, 02:42

Unread post23 Oct 2021, 15:42

mixelflick wrote:So are we sure it's going to be the J-31/35?

Given past US intelligence failures, I wouldn't be surprised to see an entirely new design. All this talk about the J-31/35 being underpowered etc., it almost leads me to believe they may have gone in another direction. It just seems odd that all of a sudden, all of these problems were magically solved and boom - we're ready for full scale production?

I suppose its possible, but we'll all find out soon enough.


Aerospace projects are a lot harder to hide than hypersonic missile projects. Chinese aerospace industry is also quite weak. It's not like their shipbuilding industry that can just crank out a new Type 055 cruiser while they just commissioned Type 052D and then launch 8 of them in 3 years.

Stuff like J-20 was known for years, but people just refused believe it would be ready to enter service by 2017 (even though a Chinese Air Force commander had announced it on national TV back in 2009!)

FC-31 first appeared in 2012 as a demonstrator and it's been progressing slowly since. They don't have the ability to build something completely new. They don't have the engines for it. I'm sure it will have some clear noticeable difference vs the demonstrator, but it will still look pretty much the same to untrained eyes like myself.
Offline

madrat

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3189
  • Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 03:12

Unread post23 Oct 2021, 16:59

Wake me up when China floats 8 modern cruisers.

Their destroyers are not exactly a big white water threat to global security. I think they'd have their hands tied staving off Kim Jong's sub force let alone the USN.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 8037
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post24 Oct 2021, 22:45

mixelflick wrote:So are we sure it's going to be the J-31/35?

Given past US intelligence failures, I wouldn't be surprised to see an entirely new design. All this talk about the J-31/35 being underpowered etc., it almost leads me to believe they may have gone in another direction. It just seems odd that all of a sudden, all of these problems were magically solved and boom - we're ready for full scale production?

I suppose its possible, but we'll all find out soon enough.



I will be the J-31/J-35 and the program appears to be moving right along. Regardless, of the naysayers....... :?


J31.jpg



J31A.jpg



J31B.jpg
Offline

milosh

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1512
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
  • Location: Serbia, Belgrade

Unread post25 Oct 2021, 07:49

I think they timing J-35 with fully operational Type-003 carrier. That would take a while so they will have +100kN chinese engine then. We are talking about late 2020s for serial production. They could do J-35 earlier using better Klimov engines but what would be point of that? It is primarily design for carrier as we read.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 8037
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post25 Oct 2021, 22:00

milosh wrote:I think they timing J-35 with fully operational Type-003 carrier. That would take a while so they will have +100kN chinese engine then. We are talking about late 2020s for serial production. They could do J-35 earlier using better Klimov engines but what would be point of that? It is primarily design for carrier as we read.


The J-35 likely will enter service with the WS-13E. Which, will be followed by the WS-19 later....


Regardless, WS-13 or RD-93 would be "adequate" for the time being.
Previous

Return to Modern Military Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 66 guests