F-15EX (is useless)

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.

Is the F-15EX really unnecessary?

Yes
8
30%
No
19
70%
 
Total votes : 27

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mixelflick

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Unread post02 May 2021, 15:20

Fox1 wrote:There are also situations where the F-15's large RCS could actually be useful for deception/distraction purposes to aid LO aircraft. Getting the bad guys to focus their attention on what appears to be an F-15 threat 200 miles to the east could be useful for a flight of LO aircraft coming in to clobber the target from the west. Warfare is very much a team activity and the best teams are often those composed of a variety of dissimilar players. The key to success in modern war has been making the battlefield a 3-dimensional nightmare for your enemy. Aircraft like the F-15 still have a seat at the table.


Yes, with this I agree. I would think it makes the enemy's job of countering you easier. Let's say the Chinese find a weakness in the F/A-18 block III (be that kinematics, its radar etc.). Since it's still an almost all Hornet Navy, that makes things dicey. Doubly so, if they've got the AIM-120D's number. It's always been a game of counter, counter-counter but the danger today is in losing the first round - because there might not be a 2nd.

OTOH the F-35 seems to have more tricks up its sleeve than any aircraft that came before it. There's only so much $ to go around though, so it'll be interesting to see where USAF stops with the F-15EX. 80 of them? 144? Or another 400 plus, to replace all F-15C's and F-15E's? The first Strike Eagles were used 30 years ago in Desert Storm. They aren't going to last forever, and it's clear USAF loves using them...
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hornetfinn

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Unread post03 May 2021, 07:24

Fox1 wrote:There are also situations where the F-15's large RCS could actually be useful for deception/distraction purposes to aid LO aircraft. Getting the bad guys to focus their attention on what appears to be an F-15 threat 200 miles to the east could be useful for a flight of LO aircraft coming in to clobber the target from the west. Warfare is very much a team activity and the best teams are often those composed of a variety of dissimilar players. The key to success in modern war has been making the battlefield a 3-dimensional nightmare for your enemy. Aircraft like the F-15 still have a seat at the table.


Same effect could be achieved using F-35s with Lüneburg lenses, decoy missiles or a lot of other assets. If you already have F-15s, then that would be one reasonable use for them in the modern battlefield (along with defending against cruise missiles or 4th gen attack aircraft). However I don't see much sense buying new F-15s for these kinds of jobs. F-35s can do the same things with equal or superior capability and can also do many things that F-15s (or other 4th gens) just can't do.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post03 May 2021, 08:00

hornetfinn wrote:
Fox1 wrote:There are also situations where the F-15's large RCS could actually be useful for deception/distraction purposes to aid LO aircraft. Getting the bad guys to focus their attention on what appears to be an F-15 threat 200 miles to the east could be useful for a flight of LO aircraft coming in to clobber the target from the west. Warfare is very much a team activity and the best teams are often those composed of a variety of dissimilar players. The key to success in modern war has been making the battlefield a 3-dimensional nightmare for your enemy. Aircraft like the F-15 still have a seat at the table.


Same effect could be achieved using F-35s with Lüneburg lenses, decoy missiles or a lot of other assets. If you already have F-15s, then that would be one reasonable use for them in the modern battlefield (along with defending against cruise missiles or 4th gen attack aircraft). However I don't see much sense buying new F-15s for these kinds of jobs. F-35s can do the same things with equal or superior capability and can also do many things that F-15s (or other 4th gens) just can't do.


Yes, seem the F-15EX Supporters are always looking for that one mission. In order to justify the existence for the aircraft in the first place. Yet, always seem to fall just a little short......
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madrat

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Unread post03 May 2021, 12:17

The one mission that F-15EX will do better then F-35 anything is to announce it's presence? It certainly isn't going to be cheaper to run a wing of F-15EX over F-35A. So it seems like you could deploy decoys for cheaper. Maybe they can strap four SM-6 derivatives on F-15EX or hypersonic missiles. But overall that's an expensive niche.

Or we could recognize it's a lifeline for Boeing. Because that's exactly what it looks, smells, and feels like. I don't need to taste when everything else indicates what it is.
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sferrin

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Unread post03 May 2021, 15:10

Corsair1963 wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:
Fox1 wrote:There are also situations where the F-15's large RCS could actually be useful for deception/distraction purposes to aid LO aircraft. Getting the bad guys to focus their attention on what appears to be an F-15 threat 200 miles to the east could be useful for a flight of LO aircraft coming in to clobber the target from the west. Warfare is very much a team activity and the best teams are often those composed of a variety of dissimilar players. The key to success in modern war has been making the battlefield a 3-dimensional nightmare for your enemy. Aircraft like the F-15 still have a seat at the table.


Same effect could be achieved using F-35s with Lüneburg lenses, decoy missiles or a lot of other assets. If you already have F-15s, then that would be one reasonable use for them in the modern battlefield (along with defending against cruise missiles or 4th gen attack aircraft). However I don't see much sense buying new F-15s for these kinds of jobs. F-35s can do the same things with equal or superior capability and can also do many things that F-15s (or other 4th gens) just can't do.


Yes, seem the F-15EX Supporters are always looking for that one mission. In order to justify the existence for the aircraft in the first place. Yet, always seem to fall just a little short......


And yet they're still being bought so opinions don't mean much here.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post04 May 2021, 00:21

sferrin wrote:
And yet they're still being bought so opinions don't mean much here.


Honestly, I think the F-15EX will be either canceled or purchased as a replacement for the existing F-15E Fleet.

This is supported by the fact. That the USAF and ANG are already planning to replace many F-15C Units with New F-35A's not the F-15EX's. Which, was the whole reason to purchase the latter in the first place.
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Fox1

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Unread post04 May 2021, 03:02

Does anyone know roughly how many C model Eagles remain in service? There are a couple of active duty squadrons at Kadena. Then there is an active squadron at Lakenheath. Other than a few birds in test squadrons and maybe some for the weapons school (if they even own their own birds), aren't pretty much all of the remaining C models in Guard service? The oldest C models have already been put out to pasture, so I can't imagine there are more than 200 or 250 (counting training and test) airframes still in service. So it would make sense that if the Air Force is only planning a buy for 144 or so aircraft, they will probably have to replace some C models with the F-35, since there will not be enough EX models to do a one for one replacement. I assume the F-35 will for sure get the nod to replace the F-15C at Kadena and Lakenheath, since those are forward bases. And it sounds like a few ANG F-15C squadrons may also end up getting the F-35. So I dunno, but if the Air Force goes beyond the proposed 144 F-15EX buy, it probably will be to replace the oldest E models in service, or to simply stand up new squadrons since there has been so much talk about growing the force. That said, good luck with that project under the current administration.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post04 May 2021, 04:50

Fox1 wrote:Does anyone know roughly how many C model Eagles remain in service? There are a couple of active duty squadrons at Kadena. Then there is an active squadron at Lakenheath. Other than a few birds in test squadrons and maybe some for the weapons school (if they even own their own birds), aren't pretty much all of the remaining C models in Guard service? The oldest C models have already been put out to pasture, so I can't imagine there are more than 200 or 250 (counting training and test) airframes still in service. So it would make sense that if the Air Force is only planning a buy for 144 or so aircraft, they will probably have to replace some C models with the F-35, since there will not be enough EX models to do a one for one replacement. I assume the F-35 will for sure get the nod to replace the F-15C at Kadena and Lakenheath, since those are forward bases. And it sounds like a few ANG F-15C squadrons may also end up getting the F-35. So I dunno, but if the Air Force goes beyond the proposed 144 F-15EX buy, it probably will be to replace the oldest E models in service, or to simply stand up new squadrons since there has been so much talk about growing the force. That said, good luck with that project under the current administration.



Lakenheath and Kadena both operate 2-Squadrons each. While, the ANG operate five units (plus 1 OCU).......


My guess is both Lakenheath and Kaden will convert to the F-35A. While, the ANG Unit will split between the F-35A and F-15EX.


So, again why are we buying 144 F-15EX's???
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madrat

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Unread post04 May 2021, 12:51

144. Because 143 is one odd number. They probably figure squadron strengths of 12. Twelve squadrons for the 144. The real question is how many O-4's is that?

Reminds me of buying bottle rockets. Go for a broken gross. Nobody really knew what a gross was but many would resell a gross as smaller bricks, or smaller subunits of individual packs. They made the most markup on packs but you don't move enough product at that rate. The seller could steal a brick or two from a broken gross and nobody knew if their gross was short or long. So you look for the broken gross and tell the guy, hey it looks like 3 packs are missing. Sometimes they'd throw in an extra brick to keep it simple. So you left with the full gross, an extra brick, and a bunch of loose packs of rockets for the price of a gross. The average guy just doesn't know their fractions.
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sferrin

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Unread post04 May 2021, 15:05

Corsair1963 wrote:
sferrin wrote:
And yet they're still being bought so opinions don't mean much here.


Honestly, I think the F-15EX will be either canceled or purchased as a replacement for the existing F-15E Fleet.


Kinda hard to cancel something that's already being bought. End production? Yes. Cancel? No. If they're used to replace the F-15E I'd hardly call that "useless".
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Unread post05 May 2021, 02:08

sferrin wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
sferrin wrote:
And yet they're still being bought so opinions don't mean much here.


Honestly, I think the F-15EX will be either canceled or purchased as a replacement for the existing F-15E Fleet.


Kinda hard to cancel something that's already being bought. End production? Yes. Cancel? No. If they're used to replace the F-15E I'd hardly call that "useless".


With that logic I guess the P-47 Thunderbolt wouldn't be useless in the 1960's. Yet, that doesn't mean we would want to buy more of them.......


Also, last I checked you can cancel any project and at anytime. (not like that has never happen before) :doh:
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sferrin

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Unread post05 May 2021, 16:55

Corsair1963 wrote:With that logic I guess the P-47 Thunderbolt wouldn't be useless in the 1960's. Yet, that doesn't mean we would want to buy more of them.......

Also, last I checked you can cancel any project and at anytime. (not like that has never happen before) :doh:


Yeah, because many nations were buying P-47s in the 1960's. :roll:

Cancelled programs don't have production units delivered. See YF-23, XB-70, etc. F-15EX is already delivering aircraft so obviously it wasn't cancelled.
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Unread post05 May 2021, 23:40

sferrin wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:With that logic I guess the P-47 Thunderbolt wouldn't be useless in the 1960's. Yet, that doesn't mean we would want to buy more of them.......

Also, last I checked you can cancel any project and at anytime. (not like that has never happen before) :doh:


Yeah, because many nations were buying P-47s in the 1960's. :roll:

Cancelled programs don't have production units delivered. See YF-23, XB-70, etc. F-15EX is already delivering aircraft so obviously it wasn't cancelled.


I didn't say the F-15EX was canceled. I said I believe it could be canceled or purchased instead as a replacement for the F-15E.


Why? Because the whole reason to acquire the F-15EX was as a replacement for the USAF / ANG F-15C's. Yet, that has changed as a number of those units are instead getting the F-35A!

So, what's so hard to get???
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