Algeria to purchase Su-57

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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madrat

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Unread post01 Dec 2020, 13:07

milosh,

Neither MiG Project 1.4x configuration (of same airframe) really had the engine they were looking for at the time. So it is not a good example of anything to do with a future aircraft unless you mean 'unobtainium'.

If the Flanker series just needed more power they could have used the engine from Su-34 for an Su-30 or Su-35S variant. It would have been potentially practical in a case like that to use one Tu-160 engine, NK-32(-1) if more thrust was important. Throwing a bigger engine into an airframe is not always a practical solution. Soviet and Russian planners always have logistics in mind for their designs. It has to be sustainable. You might believe that wasn't the case after the way MiG failed to support MiG-29 exports, but that had to do with company retraction of resources and being unable to sustain so many models when cash was short.
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milosh

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Unread post01 Dec 2020, 18:01

madrat wrote:milosh,

Neither MiG Project 1.4x configuration (of same airframe) really had the engine they were looking for at the time. So it is not a good example of anything to do with a future aircraft unless you mean 'unobtainium'.


You have AL-41 which development started in early 1980s, it was expected to be ready in 1990s, it was something like F119 but scaled up to F135 size. Older reports it was variable cycle engine were false. Confirm by Saturn engineer in one earlier interview.

But then USSR was no more, so no funds, and it was killed which also kill MiG-1.44 it had only one flight and engine was prototype of AL-41. Only plane and engine which really got funds was Flanker and AL-31 becuase it was export success so they don't rely on domestic orders.

madrat wrote:If the Flanker series just needed more power they could have used the engine from Su-34 for an Su-30 or Su-35S variant.


For you info they already are doing that, AL-41F (Su-35 engine) is engine which other Flankers are getting when there is time for new engine. Su-34 is only Flanker which don't get AL-41F because they have AL-31FM1 which is more poweful then AL-31 and have longer service life so it would take a while when they need new engine.

madrat wrote: Soviet and Russian planners always have logistics in mind for their designs. It has to be sustainable.


Which is reason why AL-51 will be used in Flankers down the line, it make logistics lot easier, now they have couple of AL-31 variants in use. While there is lot of commonality still each is different.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post01 Dec 2020, 21:41

milosh wrote:
I was quite precise, I wrote about engine development. There is reason why engine is probable most strongest part of whole program with new weapons too. And reason is quite logical.

You can use them on other fighters regardless of Su-57. If Su-57 tech couldn't be applied on anything else it would have same fate as MiG-42.


I think something is lost in translation here. the Engine is the most IMPORTANT part of this program because Su-57 will never reach its full potential without it, and the other reasons you give-- however it is the WEAKEST part of the program in the sense that it is years behind the development of the aircraft. Which is my point.

This program has been an absolutely hilarious look at so many bold claims made 10 years ago colliding with reality.

Turns out its REALLY hard to develop a next generation fighter and propulsion system.
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element1loop

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Unread post02 Dec 2020, 11:09

XanderCrews wrote:This program has been an absolutely hilarious look at so many bold claims made 10 years ago colliding with reality. Turns out its REALLY hard to develop a next generation fighter and propulsion system.


You forget, it was developed and tested in the crucible of battle over Syria.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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babybat{}.net

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Unread post02 Dec 2020, 12:51

From 19th Session of the Joint Algerian-Russian Intergovernmental Commission for Military-Technical Cooperation..
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mixelflick

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Unread post02 Dec 2020, 17:36

I wonder if any country in their right mind would buy it given its needed engine is still in development. Personally, I'd buy the SU-35 before the SU-57 at this point. At least you'd get a combat capable airframe, established weapons and a powerful radar.

It's never going to be an F-15EX, QA or even SA. But for a country like Egypt for example, it's probably the best they can do (considering the US won't sell them F-15's, or even AIM-120's to arm their Vipers)...

Milosh: You either have some inside information we aren't privy to, or otherwise have an otherworldly knowledge as to the state of Russian fighter engines. Personally, I think it's the former. Only that would explain how you can keep track of all these AL-31, 41, 51 etc sub-types, which airframes they fit into and where they are in the developmental cycle. I can see the truth in some of your posts, but its questionable in others. Very hard to figure out what's really going on..

As for the topic at hand: I don't think Algeria is going to purchase SU-57's without its final engines, especially for the asking price. It's not like those new engines are going to be cheap either, whenever they're ready. I generally admire what the Russians do given their limitations, but the constant lipstick they put on this pig has grown tiresome. I love the airframe, it's beautiful IMO. But it's not a real stealth fighter, and that's how they're portraying (and pricing) it..
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milosh

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Unread post02 Dec 2020, 18:32

XanderCrews wrote:I think something is lost in translation here. the Engine is the most IMPORTANT part of this program because Su-57 will never reach its full potential without it, and the other reasons you give-- however it is the WEAKEST part of the program in the sense that it is years behind the development of the aircraft. Which is my point.

This program has been an absolutely hilarious look at so many bold claims made 10 years ago colliding with reality.

Turns out its REALLY hard to develop a next generation fighter and propulsion system.


I never said it would be easy, or what propaganda is saying is true. In fact in early 2010s I ready interview with academic Victor Chepkin, he was back then leading Saturn constructor, and he was critical about Kremlin expectation new engine will be ready soon just because funds aren't problem now.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post24 Feb 2021, 08:49

No Middle East Nation Interested in Russia's Su-57 Jet

February 22, 2021

Russia’s Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation has revealed that no country from the Middle East showed interest in the Su-57 jet at the ongoing IDEX-2021 event.

“Requests were received concerning the Su-57E aircraft, although there are no Middle East countries among them. Nevertheless, foreign customers of this region show interest in this airplane as well,” an official spokesman of the Service was quoted as saying by TASS today.

While Israel already operates steathy F-35 jets, Su-57’s rival, the U.A.E. is close to ordering them. Washington has approved the sale of these jets along with MQ-9 drones to the country. With the Israel-U.A.E. peace deal being hammered out, a deal is on the cards. Saudi Arabia is also reportedly seeking F-35s.

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/29024 ... DYEYlj_rZF
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