Greece Getting Rafales?
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This Greek language article (use Google Translate) says that France is giving Greece eight old F1 and F2 Rafales for free and selling ten F3R Rafales to Greece. I don't know how this will affect any F-35 purchase by Greece. France has been backing up Greece quite strongly in its maritime conflict with Turkey.
https://www.pagenews.gr/2020/08/29/ella ... ti-gallia/
https://www.pagenews.gr/2020/08/29/ella ... ti-gallia/
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talkitron wrote:This Greek language article (use Google Translate) says that France is giving Greece eight old F1 and F2 Rafales for free and selling ten F3R Rafales to Greece. I don't know how this will affect any F-35 purchase by Greece. France has been backing up Greece quite strongly in its maritime conflict with Turkey.
https://www.pagenews.gr/2020/08/29/ella ... ti-gallia/
Greece can not afford a new F-35A fleet any more than Turkey can, it's a country struggling with recent sovereign debt default. A terrible prospect for a loan to buy an F-35A fleet.
With all the trouble with Turkey's vacillation and alternative path, what Greece needs is to be, from here, is a really solid strategic ally, to countries which do have things like Typhoon, Rafale, and especially F-35, in ways that Greece often hasn't been.
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The land of Nostradomus is playing out an age old prophecy. The average frenchman that follows those old prophecies believes the Turks is the origin of the anti-Christ. So the last thing they want to see is Turkey gain any more footing on Europe proper. From what I remeber in the 1990's, the french did not like the Turks at all and the held contempt for any foreigners from there. They did not seem to hold the same contempt for immigrants from the rest of North Africa or even from Pakistan and Bangledesh, so I don't think it wasa race issue. They just have too much history to trust the Turks.
I'd rather give Greece a fire-sale price for an equal number of F-35A than to see them use Rafale.
I'd rather give Greece a fire-sale price for an equal number of F-35A than to see them use Rafale.
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Well this sure is interesting, isn't it?
Free Rafale's?
That must have been nice to wake up to, but I doubt it'll have any impact on a planned F-35 buy. It's around what, 200 or so Turk F-16's vs. 80-100 Greek F-16's and Mirage 2000's. Questionable though what shape the Turkish fleet is in given western sanctions/lack of support. I doubt 18 Rafale's will be enough to give Greece a decisive edge, although Turkey won't have one either (at least in the air).
Neither country is in very good shape, for different reasons. The only way Greece gets an overwhelming advantage is with the F-35, and they have a prime opportunity here to do it. Thing is though, their fiscal issues have the country in ruins. Now is their time to capitalize, but I doubt they'll be able to.
Ergodan can't really do so either though, not unless Russia gives away free SU-35's. And I really doubt that's going to happen. Ergodan does have the S-400, but at present its not looking like the wonder weapon he had hoped...
Free Rafale's?
That must have been nice to wake up to, but I doubt it'll have any impact on a planned F-35 buy. It's around what, 200 or so Turk F-16's vs. 80-100 Greek F-16's and Mirage 2000's. Questionable though what shape the Turkish fleet is in given western sanctions/lack of support. I doubt 18 Rafale's will be enough to give Greece a decisive edge, although Turkey won't have one either (at least in the air).
Neither country is in very good shape, for different reasons. The only way Greece gets an overwhelming advantage is with the F-35, and they have a prime opportunity here to do it. Thing is though, their fiscal issues have the country in ruins. Now is their time to capitalize, but I doubt they'll be able to.
Ergodan can't really do so either though, not unless Russia gives away free SU-35's. And I really doubt that's going to happen. Ergodan does have the S-400, but at present its not looking like the wonder weapon he had hoped...
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mixelflick wrote: Questionable though what shape the Turkish fleet is in given western sanctions/lack of support.
As far as I'm aware the sanctions are very limited and focused on a handful of Govt ministers, some officials in government Agencies and a few individuals, with regard to hostile action in Syria. Nothing related to military hardware limits beyond refusing to deliver F-35A.
Sanctions details:
https://home.treasury.gov/search/node?keys=Turkey
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Tfw we have the chance to pop the f35 cherry...
...but then you are reminded that we are actually the eu country with the smallest nuts and our minister of foreign affairs is a former soccer arena steward, barely speaks Italian and spend half of his time filling his mouth with Chinese weenies.
President Trump, could you please invade us?
...but then you are reminded that we are actually the eu country with the smallest nuts and our minister of foreign affairs is a former soccer arena steward, barely speaks Italian and spend half of his time filling his mouth with Chinese weenies.
President Trump, could you please invade us?
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Step 1
1. Fly to the U.S. and play up Greek U.S alliance.
2. Casually mention how Greece could be Natos new southern flank, ask for U.S. troops and to have the tactical weapons moved to Greece.
3. Plead with the U.S. president and congress for a 3 billion dollar a year aid package. 1 billion for the refugees and 2 billion a year for security.
Tell the Americans how Greece needs protection from the Bad Russians and turks.
4. Get Trump to shake on it. Take lots of pictures peace in oyr time ect. Ect.
5. Buy F-35s with the money.
1. Fly to the U.S. and play up Greek U.S alliance.
2. Casually mention how Greece could be Natos new southern flank, ask for U.S. troops and to have the tactical weapons moved to Greece.
3. Plead with the U.S. president and congress for a 3 billion dollar a year aid package. 1 billion for the refugees and 2 billion a year for security.
Tell the Americans how Greece needs protection from the Bad Russians and turks.
4. Get Trump to shake on it. Take lots of pictures peace in oyr time ect. Ect.
5. Buy F-35s with the money.
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Ahead of F-35 Buy UAE May Look to Sell Some of its F-16 Jets to Greece
As the United Arab Emirates (UAE) is expected to progress on its desire to buy F-35 jets, it could be looking to sell some of its F-16 jets, probably to Greece to which it dispatched four "Desert Falcons” for participation in exercises with the Greek Air Force (GAF).
The move could have political benefits for Abu Dhabi as it seeks to weigh in on the side of Greece in Turkey’s dispute with Athens over Eastern Mediterranean hydrocarbon prospecting.
While Abu Dhabi has given no indication so far that its F-16s are for sale, it may not need 80 of them if it gets to buy an estimated 12 F-35s from the US following its peace deal with Israel.
UAE’s F-16s are among the most advanced in the world. First received in 2004, its fleet of 80 F-16 jets feature a Northrop Grumman APG-80 AESA radar, conformal fuel tanks as standard, an integrated Northrop Grumman electronic warfare system and a MIL-STD 1773 databus. Called the Block 60, they are just a step behind the F-16 Block 70/72 Viper- the latest iteration of the venerable American fighter.
For Greece, the UAE F-16s would introduce them to the most modern F-16s short of the F-16 Viper and immediately help to a large extent, match its Air Force against that of Turkey’s.
Greece boasts a fleet of some 150 F-16 fighters. In December 2019, Greek Defense Minister Nikos Panagiotopoulos told the parliament that 84 of the GAF’s 150 F-16s would be upgraded to the advanced Viper class by 2027 costing $1.5 billion. The upgrades are only expected to arrive starting 2027 and until then it will be vulnerable to Turkey’s advanced fighter planes.
Though Greece has announced a decision to buy Dassault Rafale jets, these too would not arrive until 2026 that is, if it signs the contract with Dassault latest by 2021.
If Greece buys UAE’s F-16s, it would also help the US checkmate France which first sent aircraft for exercises and later entered into negotiations with Athens to sell Rafale jets.
The participation of the Emirati F-16s in GAF exercises was followed up with a visit by Lt. General Hamad Mohammed Thani Al Rumaithi, Chief of Staff of the UAE Armed Forces to Greece who inspected the site of joint military exercises in the Greek island of Crete on Monday.
Later, Al Rumaithi met separately with Nikos Panagiotopoulos, Minister for National Defence of Greece, and his Greek counterpart, General Konstantinos Floros. “The two meetings discussed ways to strengthen cooperation and joint action between the UAE and Greece, particularly in defence and military areas and accelerate military coordination and cross visits,” according to a UAE government release.
The sudden interest to intensify military cooperation between Greece and UAE hides more than it reveals. The UAE is trying to become a regional economic and military power as is evident from its participation in the Libyan conflict on the side of the Haftar militia where it is locked in battle with Turkey (which supports the GNA- the UN recognized Libyan government).
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/27906 ... 3Q16tGpWhM
As the United Arab Emirates (UAE) is expected to progress on its desire to buy F-35 jets, it could be looking to sell some of its F-16 jets, probably to Greece to which it dispatched four "Desert Falcons” for participation in exercises with the Greek Air Force (GAF).
The move could have political benefits for Abu Dhabi as it seeks to weigh in on the side of Greece in Turkey’s dispute with Athens over Eastern Mediterranean hydrocarbon prospecting.
While Abu Dhabi has given no indication so far that its F-16s are for sale, it may not need 80 of them if it gets to buy an estimated 12 F-35s from the US following its peace deal with Israel.
UAE’s F-16s are among the most advanced in the world. First received in 2004, its fleet of 80 F-16 jets feature a Northrop Grumman APG-80 AESA radar, conformal fuel tanks as standard, an integrated Northrop Grumman electronic warfare system and a MIL-STD 1773 databus. Called the Block 60, they are just a step behind the F-16 Block 70/72 Viper- the latest iteration of the venerable American fighter.
For Greece, the UAE F-16s would introduce them to the most modern F-16s short of the F-16 Viper and immediately help to a large extent, match its Air Force against that of Turkey’s.
Greece boasts a fleet of some 150 F-16 fighters. In December 2019, Greek Defense Minister Nikos Panagiotopoulos told the parliament that 84 of the GAF’s 150 F-16s would be upgraded to the advanced Viper class by 2027 costing $1.5 billion. The upgrades are only expected to arrive starting 2027 and until then it will be vulnerable to Turkey’s advanced fighter planes.
Though Greece has announced a decision to buy Dassault Rafale jets, these too would not arrive until 2026 that is, if it signs the contract with Dassault latest by 2021.
If Greece buys UAE’s F-16s, it would also help the US checkmate France which first sent aircraft for exercises and later entered into negotiations with Athens to sell Rafale jets.
The participation of the Emirati F-16s in GAF exercises was followed up with a visit by Lt. General Hamad Mohammed Thani Al Rumaithi, Chief of Staff of the UAE Armed Forces to Greece who inspected the site of joint military exercises in the Greek island of Crete on Monday.
Later, Al Rumaithi met separately with Nikos Panagiotopoulos, Minister for National Defence of Greece, and his Greek counterpart, General Konstantinos Floros. “The two meetings discussed ways to strengthen cooperation and joint action between the UAE and Greece, particularly in defence and military areas and accelerate military coordination and cross visits,” according to a UAE government release.
The sudden interest to intensify military cooperation between Greece and UAE hides more than it reveals. The UAE is trying to become a regional economic and military power as is evident from its participation in the Libyan conflict on the side of the Haftar militia where it is locked in battle with Turkey (which supports the GNA- the UN recognized Libyan government).
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/27906 ... 3Q16tGpWhM
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Greece's Rafale buy gets the green light
18 Dec 2020 Euthymius Petrou
"The Greek government’s Parliamentary Subcommittee for Defence Procurement agreed on 17 December to proceed with the acquisition of 18 Dassault Rafale multirole fighters for the Hellenic Air Force (HAF). Although according to Greek law no vote was required for the decision, all political parties agreed that the aircraft were needed.
The total cost of the programme will be EUR1.92 billion (USD2.35 billion), according to Ministry of National Defence sources, while another EUR400 million will be used to purchase Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles and to upgrade missiles already in the HAF inventory (namely Mica air-to-air missiles, Scalp cruise missiles, and Exocet anti-ship missiles) for carriage by the Rafales. These missiles are currently used to arm the HAF’s Dassault Mirage 2000 and Mirage 2000-5 aircraft.
Twelve of the 18 Rafales (10 single seaters and two twin seaters) will be former French Air Force aircraft, with delivery of the first six expected to start six months after the signing of the contract, estimated to occur in June 2021. Deliveries will continue at a rate of one per month. On the 20th month after the handover of the initial six aircraft, the delivery of brand-new Rafales will begin and continue at a rate of one per month. Finally, 26 months after the contract is signed, delivery of the last six second-hand fighters will occur. The first four HAF pilots will start training in France early in 2021."
Source: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... reen-light
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Contract signed.
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/gr ... -45-years/
Since 36 can wipe out the PLAAF, the Greeks only need half to secure NATO's southern flank.
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/gr ... -45-years/
Since 36 can wipe out the PLAAF, the Greeks only need half to secure NATO's southern flank.
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weasel1962 wrote:Contract signed.
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/gr ... -45-years/
Since 36 can wipe out the PLAAF, the Greeks only need half to secure NATO's southern flank.
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Corsair1963 wrote:weasel1962 wrote:Contract signed.
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/gr ... -45-years/
Since 36 can wipe out the PLAAF, the Greeks only need half to secure NATO's southern flank.
Some "sar" just cannot bridge the chasm to understand.
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weasel1962 wrote:Corsair1963 wrote:weasel1962 wrote:Contract signed.
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/gr ... -45-years/
Since 36 can wipe out the PLAAF, the Greeks only need half to secure NATO's southern flank.
Some "sar" just cannot bridge the chasm to understand.
You care to explain.....
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