F-15EX

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post09 Aug 2022, 00:50

wrightwing wrote:
garrya wrote:
There are several F-15 charts you can look at.
Generally, F-15 loaded with AIM-120 and no CFTs is faster than F-35.

The F-15C has never flown faster than M1.4 in combat. Could it fly faster? Yes. But even then it's not going to be flying faster than M1.6 if it hopes to have any range or persistence. This topic has been beaten to death. It simply takes too much fuel to get beyond M1.4, for it to be considered tactically relevant.



Well said........
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Corsair1963

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Unread post09 Aug 2022, 00:58

usafr wrote:Which is why the USAF considers the F-22 Raptor's ability to "cruise" at mach 1.5 a "super" ability worthy of its own special name.

While others achieve < 1.5 super sonic speeds with out a full combat load of weapons and fuel, and only for a short period of time (< 5 min?), the Raptor can do 1.5 routinely and for a much longer time (> 10 min?).

Super Cuise is different from super sonic dash. Only a Raptor can super "cruise".



Splitting hairs...So, the F-22 can fly longer and at a higher speed during "supercruise". Yet, that hardly changes the definition.


That is like saying "Supersonic" is really Mach 1.5 or above. While, any aircraft flying less than that is no longer supersonic. :bang:
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Corsair1963

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Unread post09 Aug 2022, 01:06

wrightwing wrote:
garrya wrote:
There are several F-15 charts you can look at.
Generally, F-15 loaded with AIM-120 and no CFTs is faster than F-35.

The F-15C has never flown faster than M1.4 in combat. Could it fly faster? Yes. But even then it's not going to be flying faster than M1.6 if it hopes to have any range or persistence. This topic has been beaten to death. It simply takes too much fuel to get beyond M1.4, for it to be considered tactically relevant.



You can make a similar case in payload. The F-15EX doesn't ever carry a 30,000 lbs payload. Could it carry that load? Yes, but like you said it wouldn't be tactically relevant.

This has been the problem with many such debates with the F-35 vs 4th Generation Fighters. That is what is on paper is very different than the actual reality under combat conditions. Which, is the only thing that matters......
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usafr

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Unread post09 Aug 2022, 02:06

Not the same thing at all.

No one said, suggested or came close to even impliying those other airplanes were not traveling at supersonic speeds, just that they were not "cruising without afterburner" anywhere near the speeds or for anywhere near the length of time that a Raptor could.

They (the makers of the other plane) were the ones suggesting their planes had similar capabilities to Raptor by clain they too could supercruise. So the USAF rightly came up with a definition of what they considered to be "super cruise", one only the Raptor could meet and that shut everyone up.

Another win for the USAF and the F-22A Raptor! Ha, ha.
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Unread post09 Aug 2022, 03:16

Two Valley military bases being considered for new fighter jets
Rich Rodriguez 1 hr ago

Two Valley military bases are being considered for new fighter jets.

Fresno and Lemoore are the only two west coast bases on the list of four.

The National Guard Bureau wants to add a squadron of F-15EX jets at two of three bases plus a squadron of F-35A jets at one of four bases.

The bases being considered include Fresno's 144th Fighter Wing, Naval Air Station Lemoore, Barnes Air National Guard Base in Westfield, Massachusetts, and the NAS Joint Reserve Base in Belle Chasse, Louisiana.

Lemoore is only a candidate for the F-35A not the F-15EX.

The new planes would replace the F-15C/D which pilots from Fresno's 144th fly.

Those jets would be retired due to their age and maintenance costs. One-hundred additional crew members would be needed for the F-15EX and 80 additional team members for the F-35A.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/two-v ... r-AA10saLW
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Unread post09 Aug 2022, 03:21

This source is a little different........

Want new fighter jets flying out of Fresno airport? How to sound off on military plans

The National Guard has scheduled three public meetings as part of an environmental impact statement to consider the possible future assignment of F15-EX and F-35A squadrons at the 144th Fighter Wing in Fresno.

The Guard has proposed to beddown one FA-15EX squadron at two of three possible locations across the country — the Barnes Air National Guard Base in Westfield, Mass.; Fresno National Air Guard Base at the Fresno Yosemite International Airport and Naval Air Station Reserve Base in New Orleans in Belle Chasse, La. The bases are also under consideration as a potential location for the F-35A squadron, along with Naval Air Station Lemoore, authorities said in a news release.

The environmental impact statement will assess the consequences of the four bases in support of operations. Areas to be analyzed include noise, biological resources, cultural resources, soils and geology, water resources, infrastructure and transportation, land use, hazardous materials and wastes, health and safety and air quality.

https://www.aol.com/news/fighter-wing-f ... 00835.html
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Unread post09 Aug 2022, 03:32

Fresno and Lemoore are one and the same! As the 194th Fighter Squadron would retire their F-15Cs for new F-35As. Then move from Fresno to Lemoore NAS. Which, is the West Coast FRS for the USN. Which, operate F-35Cs!


Clearly, operating ANG (Califonia) F-35As next to USN F-35Cs makes a lot of sense!

QUOTE:

Kings County supports basing new F-35 squadron at NAS Lemoore

John Lindt

Aug 3, 2022 Updated 5 hrs ago


This week the Kings County Board of Supervisors wrote a strong letter of support to add a new F-35 squadron to the base at NAS Lemoore with a nationwide four-location competition underway.


In their letter of support, the supervisors said: “With an excess of 11,800 jobs attributed to the base, and a payroll exceeding $475 million, NAS Lemoore represents the single largest employer in Kings County. The continued success of NAS Lemoore is critical to our local economy.


“We stand firm in our commitment to the support of NAS Lemoore – the nation’s premier Naval master jet base. Please know that the County of Kings and the Kings County Board of Supervisors highly support the Department of the Air Force and National Guard Bureau’s decision to consider locating the F-35A Lightning II at NAS Lemoore.”

https://hanfordsentinel.com/business/ki ... 070a7.html



8)

The plan is the California ANG will retire their F-15Cs and replaced them with new F-35As. These would move from Fresno International Airport to NAS Lemoore. Which, already operate a number of USN F-35C Squadrons. (makes a lot of sense)
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Unread post09 Aug 2022, 03:51

Now its down to Barnes Air National Guard Base in Westfield, Mass.and Naval Air Station Reserve Base in New Orleans in Belle Chasse, La.....

My guess is both with get the F-15EX. Yet, Barnes wants the F-35 desperately! So, who knows..... :|
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Unread post09 Aug 2022, 04:27

Maybe they could take a page from the F-16/J79 and offer an F-15EX/J79 so that you have plenty of thrust at your top speed. You might need those CFT to carry enough fuel to get supersonic with an external load. But you'll get there eventually.
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Unread post09 Aug 2022, 15:43

Corsair1963 wrote:Now its down to Barnes Air National Guard Base in Westfield, Mass.and Naval Air Station Reserve Base in New Orleans in Belle Chasse, La.....

My guess is both with get the F-15EX. Yet, Barnes wants the F-35 desperately! So, who knows..... :|


The perception is that if Barnes gets the F-35, they'll be much less prone to the possibility of base closure in the future. Which might hold water, although the politics of the matter are likely far more important. How else do you explain Barnes' ANG location, with the biggest Air Force Reserve base in the country right over the mountain (Westover AFB, Chicopee MA)? Especially given the fact Westover lost 8 C-5A aircraft years ago, and is now down to just 8 C-5M's. Biggest runway in the Northeast and tons of space to co-locate multiple F-15/fighter jet squadrons. Yet, nope... the ANG operating out of a small regional airport makes no practical sense. It boils down to our reps in D.C. making the case to keep the ANG there, which they're done mighty well over the years.

Having said that, I concur with your guess... Both bases with likely get the F-15EX. In Barnes' case, I think that makes sense given their mission (air defense of the entire Northeast). If they really are buying 80 new F-15's, they'll have to go somewhere. Homeland defense makes a lot more sense vs. deploying these jets on the front line, especially given recent moves made by China. We need as many F-35's in that neck of the woods as possible, not the EX...
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Unread post09 Aug 2022, 18:26

mixelflick wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Now its down to Barnes Air National Guard Base in Westfield, Mass.and Naval Air Station Reserve Base in New Orleans in Belle Chasse, La.....

My guess is both with get the F-15EX. Yet, Barnes wants the F-35 desperately! So, who knows..... :|


The perception is that if Barnes gets the F-35, they'll be much less prone to the possibility of base closure in the future. Which might hold water, although the politics of the matter are likely far more important. How else do you explain Barnes' ANG location, with the biggest Air Force Reserve base in the country right over the mountain (Westover AFB, Chicopee MA)? Especially given the fact Westover lost 8 C-5A aircraft years ago, and is now down to just 8 C-5M's. Biggest runway in the Northeast and tons of space to co-locate multiple F-15/fighter jet squadrons. Yet, nope... the ANG operating out of a small regional airport makes no practical sense. It boils down to our reps in D.C. making the case to keep the ANG there, which they're done mighty well over the years.

Having said that, I concur with your guess... Both bases with likely get the F-15EX. In Barnes' case, I think that makes sense given their mission (air defense of the entire Northeast). If they really are buying 80 new F-15's, they'll have to go somewhere. Homeland defense makes a lot more sense vs. deploying these jets on the front line, especially given recent moves made by China. We need as many F-35's in that neck of the woods as possible, not the EX...



Not surprised that the Guard is going to make it a two crew member aircraft.
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Unread post10 Aug 2022, 03:33

mixelflick wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Now its down to Barnes Air National Guard Base in Westfield, Mass.and Naval Air Station Reserve Base in New Orleans in Belle Chasse, La.....

My guess is both with get the F-15EX. Yet, Barnes wants the F-35 desperately! So, who knows..... :|


The perception is that if Barnes gets the F-35, they'll be much less prone to the possibility of base closure in the future. Which might hold water, although the politics of the matter are likely far more important. How else do you explain Barnes' ANG location, with the biggest Air Force Reserve base in the country right over the mountain (Westover AFB, Chicopee MA)? Especially given the fact Westover lost 8 C-5A aircraft years ago, and is now down to just 8 C-5M's. Biggest runway in the Northeast and tons of space to co-locate multiple F-15/fighter jet squadrons. Yet, nope... the ANG operating out of a small regional airport makes no practical sense. It boils down to our reps in D.C. making the case to keep the ANG there, which they're done mighty well over the years.

Having said that, I concur with your guess... Both bases with likely get the F-15EX. In Barnes' case, I think that makes sense given their mission (air defense of the entire Northeast). If they really are buying 80 new F-15's, they'll have to go somewhere. Homeland defense makes a lot more sense vs. deploying these jets on the front line, especially given recent moves made by China. We need as many F-35's in that neck of the woods as possible, not the EX...


Well, you clearly know the local politics far better than I.....Yet, Massachusetts is very much a Blue State and the Governor along with the majority of his Party. Have fought tooth and nail to get the F-35s. So, can the Biden Admin really turn them down???

I guess time will tell....
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Unread post10 Aug 2022, 21:06

mixelflick wrote:
Having said that, I concur with your guess... Both bases with likely get the F-15EX. In Barnes' case, I think that makes sense given their mission (air defense of the entire Northeast). If they really are buying 80 new F-15's, they'll have to go somewhere. Homeland defense makes a lot more sense vs. deploying these jets on the front line, especially given recent moves made by China. We need as many F-35's in that neck of the woods as possible, not the EX...


I am not so sure about the statement that the Air National Guard will be regulated to just homeland defense. As we have seen with operations in Iraq, Afganistan, and Syria, national guard units have been becoming more active for overseas operations. Though F-15EX isnt ideal for the first couple of days or weeks of a SHTF major conflict, they will have their place in combat operations.

Just my opinion.
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Unread post11 Aug 2022, 01:59

charlielima223 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:
Having said that, I concur with your guess... Both bases with likely get the F-15EX. In Barnes' case, I think that makes sense given their mission (air defense of the entire Northeast). If they really are buying 80 new F-15's, they'll have to go somewhere. Homeland defense makes a lot more sense vs. deploying these jets on the front line, especially given recent moves made by China. We need as many F-35's in that neck of the woods as possible, not the EX...


I am not so sure about the statement that the Air National Guard will be regulated to just homeland defense. As we have seen with operations in Iraq, Afganistan, and Syria, national guard units have been becoming more active for overseas operations. Though F-15EX isnt ideal for the first couple of days or weeks of a SHTF major conflict, they will have their place in combat operations.

Just my opinion.


Yes, some of the F-15EX Supporter claim the aircraft is adequate. Because it was just replacing the F-15Cs in the Air Defense Role. Yet, ANG Units including F15s often deploy overseas.
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mixelflick

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Unread post11 Aug 2022, 17:00

Corsair1963 wrote:
charlielima223 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:
Having said that, I concur with your guess... Both bases with likely get the F-15EX. In Barnes' case, I think that makes sense given their mission (air defense of the entire Northeast). If they really are buying 80 new F-15's, they'll have to go somewhere. Homeland defense makes a lot more sense vs. deploying these jets on the front line, especially given recent moves made by China. We need as many F-35's in that neck of the woods as possible, not the EX...


I am not so sure about the statement that the Air National Guard will be regulated to just homeland defense. As we have seen with operations in Iraq, Afganistan, and Syria, national guard units have been becoming more active for overseas operations. Though F-15EX isnt ideal for the first couple of days or weeks of a SHTF major conflict, they will have their place in combat operations.

Just my opinion.


Yes, some of the F-15EX Supporter claim the aircraft is adequate. Because it was just replacing the F-15Cs in the Air Defense Role. Yet, ANG Units including F15s often deploy overseas.


This right here ^^^^^^^^^^

The vast majority of the time, they're flying homeland defense missions. I can watch them zip south almost daily, I assume they're practicing making a bee-line to NYC. But I've also spoken to pilots in the unit that deployed overseas. In one instance (many years ago), they took their F-15C's to (I think) Malaysia and tangled with their Flankers. Frankly given the ever shrinking resources, I don't see where USAF has the fiscal luxury of having separate stateside and overseas units.

They seem to be telegraphing just that with the EX, speaking frequently to how EPAWWS can "allow the F-15EX to operate in a contested environment" (paraphrasing). But that's essentially what's being said. How much of that is truth and how much is fiction only USAF knows. I suspect EPAWWS works (it would have to to some degree, to keep the Beagles relevant), but not in every theater and in every instance. Still, it might help sell a few more to Congress, so I would expect that verbage to stay in the mix for the forseeable future...
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