F-15EX

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post05 Apr 2022, 08:46

charlielima223 wrote:IF the F-35 is so damn good why are nations that have F-15s and F-35s not getting rid of their F-15s in favor of F-35? Israel, Japan, and South Korea have F-35s yet they are still holding onto their F-15s. Surely the Israeli Air Force would benefit from having an all F-35 fleet but you dont see them doing that.
This thread is about the F-15EX. If you want to rant and rave on how the F-35 is now the end all be all, take it over to the F-35 thread. Not everything needs to be decended into "F-35 is better because its the F-35".


Because it's a lot cheaper to operate those already existing F-15s than replacing them with F-35s when they still have quite a lot of usable life and spare parts for them? It's also matter of training pilots and maintenance personnel along with replacing support systems and equipment with new ones. Another point is that F-35 will take some years to be able to use all the same weapons that are cleared for F-15s. The situation was the same when F-15s and F-16s were replacing F-4s, F-104s and F-5s for example. Those F-15s will likely be replaced by F-35s at some point, but it might take a decade or even two to fully happen.

F-15EX is great aircraft and I can see the point of replacing some old F-15s with it as the infrastructure remains largely the same and all the same weapons are usable with it. Training requirements are also a lot less than going from F-15C/D/E to F-35. It's also a good candidate for countries who can't get F-35 for some reason but could get other Western aircraft.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post05 Apr 2022, 09:12

charlielima223 wrote:
IF the F-35 is so damn good why are nations that have F-15s and F-35s not getting rid of their F-15s in favor of F-35? Israel, Japan, and South Korea have F-35s yet they are still holding onto their F-15s. Surely the Israeli Air Force would benefit from having an all F-35 fleet but you dont see them doing that.

This thread is about the F-15EX. If you want to rant and rave on how the F-35 is now the end all be all, take it over to the F-35 thread. Not everything needs to be decended into "F-35 is better because its the F-35".



Most are keeping their F-15's until enough F-35's come online to at least replace most of them.


Nonetheless, considering you brought it up...


Japan- The F-35 was initially planned to replace the F-4s. Yet, that has now expanded to include at least half of the remaining F-15J Fleet. Of course considering the delays in their 6th Generation Fighter Program. Most believe all of the Eagles will eventually be replaced with additional F-35s. Just depends on when the funds can be secured???

Israel- They were rumored to be under pressure to acquire the F-15EX. Yet, they have flatly rejected that and are just buying F-35Is. (Adir in their circles)
Last edited by Corsair1963 on 05 Apr 2022, 09:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post05 Apr 2022, 09:15

hornetfinn wrote:
Because it's a lot cheaper to operate those already existing F-15s than replacing them with F-35s when they still have quite a lot of usable life and spare parts for them? It's also matter of training pilots and maintenance personnel along with replacing support systems and equipment with new ones. Another point is that F-35 will take some years to be able to use all the same weapons that are cleared for F-15s. The situation was the same when F-15s and F-16s were replacing F-4s, F-104s and F-5s for example. Those F-15s will likely be replaced by F-35s at some point, but it might take a decade or even two to fully happen.

F-15EX is great aircraft and I can see the point of replacing some old F-15s with it as the infrastructure remains largely the same and all the same weapons are usable with it. Training requirements are also a lot less than going from F-15C/D/E to F-35. It's also a good candidate for countries who can't get F-35 for some reason but could get other Western aircraft.


I think the F-15EX is a stretch for many Air Forces that don't have access to the F-35 but can still acquire a Western Fighter.

With the Block 70 Viper and Rafale being the obvious choice....

Because the Eagle is still pretty expensive to both own and operate. :shock:
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weasel1962

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Unread post05 Apr 2022, 10:55

hornetfinn wrote:Because it's a lot cheaper to operate those already existing F-15s than replacing them with F-35s when they still have quite a lot of usable life and spare parts for them? It's also matter of training pilots and maintenance personnel along with replacing support systems and equipment with new ones. Another point is that F-35 will take some years to be able to use all the same weapons that are cleared for F-15s. The situation was the same when F-15s and F-16s were replacing F-4s, F-104s and F-5s for example. Those F-15s will likely be replaced by F-35s at some point, but it might take a decade or even two to fully happen.

F-15EX is great aircraft and I can see the point of replacing some old F-15s with it as the infrastructure remains largely the same and all the same weapons are usable with it. Training requirements are also a lot less than going from F-15C/D/E to F-35. It's also a good candidate for countries who can't get F-35 for some reason but could get other Western aircraft.


That is spot on. But there's also a downside. By having such a long usable life, buys today does mean one could end up operating the F-15 for another 4 to 5 decades precisely because of the super long airframe life.

Not the 1st time I'm saying this but the sweet spot for buying F-15s was 2005 (under Bush Jnr). Back before the F-35 started production lots (lot 1 started 2007) and transition up to 2012 when blk 2A ended (F-35 buy numbers were still low). Imho, investment then would have reduced a lot of pain today but it got sidetracked by Iraq & Afghanistan which also tied up Obama's hands. Today, it would have been an MLU rather than new builds using the QA, SA upgrades. That's history. Everyone knows the current buys are a jobs program.

F-15EX is still a great plane btw.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post05 Apr 2022, 11:01

Corsair1963 wrote:I think the F-15EX is a stretch for many Air Forces that don't have access to the F-35 but can still acquire a Western Fighter.

With the Block 70 Viper and Rafale being the obvious choice....

Because the Eagle is still pretty expensive to both own and operate. :shock:


That is true and I'd also add Super Hornet as a very good option for those countries. It's cheaper to buy and operate than Rafale and is very capable and flexible multirole fighter aircraft.
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weasel1962

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Unread post05 Apr 2022, 11:30

Super hornet does not have a strong export record to justify the statement. The number of lost tenders...even those that bought it, namely Kuwait ended up with a split buy. Australia bought it as a gap filler to the F-35. Both were existing hornet users. Many other hornet users considered but never upgraded to the super hornets.

The later F-15 (post F-15K) has a much better export record than super hornet.
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mixelflick

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Unread post05 Apr 2022, 13:21

Looks like the F-15 will be the B-52 of fighters, considering how long advanced Eagles will be flying with foreign air arms. And I'm sure the EX will eventually backfill the F-15E in USAF service.

Long outliving its original McD design engineers... Those guys really did craft something special. They had no way of knowing just how successful it would become. At this rate, it's a dead heat insofar as who the last plane standing will be before disappearing altogether: Upgraded F-16's or Advanced F-15's.

Quite a story..
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Tiger05

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Unread post05 Apr 2022, 20:31

Full article is behind a paywall unfortunately but interesting to see that some F-15EXs might be based overseas with frontline units and not just be used by ANG units like initially thought...

PACAF Chief Favors F-15EX For Kadena Basing

March 14, 2022

The head of U.S. Pacific Air Forces favors choosing the Boeing F-15EX to replace two squadrons of aging F-15C/D fighters at Kadena Air Base in Okinawa, Japan.

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... ena-basing
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Corsair1963

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Unread post06 Apr 2022, 01:29

Tiger05 wrote:Full article is behind a paywall unfortunately but interesting to see that some F-15EXs might be based overseas with frontline units and not just be used by ANG units like initially thought...

PACAF Chief Favors F-15EX For Kadena Basing

March 14, 2022

The head of U.S. Pacific Air Forces favors choosing the Boeing F-15EX to replace two squadrons of aging F-15C/D fighters at Kadena Air Base in Okinawa, Japan.

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... ena-basing



Already posted............

Nonetheless, few actually believe he would "prefer" the F-15EX. He is likely just agreeing with his superiors.
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usafr

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Unread post06 Apr 2022, 02:40

Just because they are above you in the chain of command does not mean they are "superior."

It just means they have achieve promotion to the level of their incompetence.

So says Peter

Gotta go

See ya
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weasel1962

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Unread post06 Apr 2022, 10:23

mixelflick wrote:Looks like the F-15 will be the B-52 of fighters, considering how long advanced Eagles will be flying with foreign air arms. And I'm sure the EX will eventually backfill the F-15E in USAF service.

Long outliving its original McD design engineers... Those guys really did craft something special. They had no way of knowing just how successful it would become. At this rate, it's a dead heat insofar as who the last plane standing will be before disappearing altogether: Upgraded F-16's or Advanced F-15's.

Quite a story..


Old soldiers never die. They just fade away...

For the F-15, Many in this forum probably share MacArthur's version. - Old soldiers never die. Young ones wish they would.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post08 Apr 2022, 11:11

hornetfinn wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:I think the F-15EX is a stretch for many Air Forces that don't have access to the F-35 but can still acquire a Western Fighter.

With the Block 70 Viper and Rafale being the obvious choice....

Because the Eagle is still pretty expensive to both own and operate. :shock:


That is true and I'd also add Super Hornet as a very good option for those countries. It's cheaper to buy and operate than Rafale and is very capable and flexible multirole fighter aircraft.



I agree the Super Hornet is a good value. Yet, thus far only two export customers Australia and Kuwait.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post08 Apr 2022, 11:59

Corsair1963 wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:I think the F-15EX is a stretch for many Air Forces that don't have access to the F-35 but can still acquire a Western Fighter.

With the Block 70 Viper and Rafale being the obvious choice....

Because the Eagle is still pretty expensive to both own and operate. :shock:


That is true and I'd also add Super Hornet as a very good option for those countries. It's cheaper to buy and operate than Rafale and is very capable and flexible multirole fighter aircraft.



I agree the Super Hornet is a good value. Yet, thus far only two export customers Australia and Kuwait.


That's true, although it's mostly because F-35 has won most of the competitions where SH has participated. SH hasn't even participated in many competitions and Western fighter sales were at very low level during 2005-2015 or so when SH was at its best. Now I think it also suffers from the fact that it's likely retired by the main users sooner than other 4th gen fighters. I also think that Boeing will now offer F-15EX and not SH as it likely sees more potential sales for it too.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post08 Apr 2022, 12:14

hornetfinn wrote:
That's true, although it's mostly because F-35 has won most of the competitions where SH has participated. SH hasn't even participated in many competitions and Western fighter sales were at very low level during 2005-2015 or so when SH was at its best. Now I think it also suffers from the fact that it's likely retired by the main users sooner than other 4th gen fighters. I also think that Boeing will now offer F-15EX and not SH as it likely sees more potential sales for it too.



Well, India is looking for a 4th Generation Naval Fighter. So, that is a possibility.....

Honestly, India already operates the Rafale. So, the most logical choice would be for them to acquire the Rafale M for their Aircraft Carriers.

So, for that reason alone they likely will buy the Super Hornet! :?
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Unread post08 Apr 2022, 19:38

hornetfinn wrote:
That's true, although it's mostly because F-35 has won most of the competitions where SH has participated. SH hasn't even participated in many competitions and Western fighter sales were at very low level during 2005-2015 or so when SH was at its best. Now I think it also suffers from the fact that it's likely retired by the main users sooner than other 4th gen fighters. I also think that Boeing will now offer F-15EX and not SH as it likely sees more potential sales for it too.


Super Hornet also has much smaller RCS than F-15EX.

F-15EX has better kinematic performance and range-payload combination, but who really need that kinematic performance on modern air warfare?

And about the range/payload: probably still better to have 3 super hornets +1 growler than 3 F-15EXs's, for about the same cost.
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