Su-57 Felon

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

element1loop

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1696
  • Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 05:35
  • Location: Australia

Unread post16 Jan 2021, 03:28

They probably would get it too ... except ... they made a big thing out of buying the S400 instead ... :doh:
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4291
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post19 Jan 2021, 14:58

More Russian PR concerning the SU-57. Here claiming a 10 AAM loadout, inclusive of 8 BVR AAM's and 2 HOBS missiles internally.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... ment-range

Question: Has anyone seen the SU-57 with this hypothetical 10 AAM loadout? I suppose its possible, but thus far all I've seen is a R-74 short range AAM fired from the bird. And there's lots of speculation as to whether that video is credible..
Online

milosh

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1267
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
  • Location: Serbia, Belgrade

Unread post19 Jan 2021, 20:48

mixelflick wrote:More Russian PR concerning the SU-57. Here claiming a 10 AAM loadout, inclusive of 8 BVR AAM's and 2 HOBS missiles internally.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... ment-range

Question: Has anyone seen the SU-57 with this hypothetical 10 AAM loadout? I suppose its possible, but thus far all I've seen is a R-74 short range AAM fired from the bird. And there's lots of speculation as to whether that video is credible..


Two missiles per bay, because of two ejection launchers in bay:
Image

Don't be confused with Su-47 it was testbed for some Su-57 systems, main bay for example. This is why we saw R-74 test but no R-77 test. R-77 is probable already tested with Su-47. But side bay Su-47 didn't had.
Offline

charlielima223

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1289
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2014, 19:26

Unread post20 Jan 2021, 13:43

mixelflick wrote:More Russian PR concerning the SU-57. Here claiming a 10 AAM loadout, inclusive of 8 BVR AAM's and 2 HOBS missiles internally.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... ment-range

Question: Has anyone seen the SU-57 with this hypothetical 10 AAM loadout? I suppose its possible, but thus far all I've seen is a R-74 short range AAM fired from the bird. And there's lots of speculation as to whether that video is credible..


If Milosh is right and the Su-57 has 2 internal weapon bays of the same type that was seen on the Su-47 along with two more additional internal spaces for short range AAMs, that would already give it six internal missile load. However the additional 4 missiles will need to he carried externally.

Note the 4 additional external pylons
Image
Offline

sprstdlyscottsmn

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 5036
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 01:24
  • Location: Nashua NH USA

Unread post20 Jan 2021, 14:56

That adds up.
"Spurts"

-Pilot
-Aerospace Engineer
-Army Medic
-FMS Systems Engineer
-PFD Systems Engineer
-PATRIOT Systems Engineer
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4291
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post20 Jan 2021, 15:53

charlielima223 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:More Russian PR concerning the SU-57. Here claiming a 10 AAM loadout, inclusive of 8 BVR AAM's and 2 HOBS missiles internally.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... ment-range

Question: Has anyone seen the SU-57 with this hypothetical 10 AAM loadout? I suppose its possible, but thus far all I've seen is a R-74 short range AAM fired from the bird. And there's lots of speculation as to whether that video is credible..


If Milosh is right and the Su-57 has 2 internal weapon bays of the same type that was seen on the Su-47 along with two more additional internal spaces for short range AAMs, that would already give it six internal missile load. However the additional 4 missiles will need to he carried externally.

Note the 4 additional external pylons
Image


Yeah, 10 internally seemed questionable...

6 is a decent amount, although I privately wonder how the "compressed carry" R-77 really performs. I'm assuming that's what'll fit - 4 R-77 and two R-74. The R-73 looks like an absolute monster, I'd be quite surprised if they got even a scaled down version of that to fit internally. I have pics of 2 R-37's though?

The bigger/fatter one is listed as the R-37M, the skinnier one just R-37. Milosh, I'm assuming this slimmer one is for SU-57 internal carriage? Any idea how its range (stated as 400km for R-37M) is affected??

Also, I dunno how any of these really perform. But Russian AAM's sure look cool.... :mrgreen:
Attachments
R-37M.jpg
R-37.jpg
Online

milosh

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1267
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
  • Location: Serbia, Belgrade

Unread post20 Jan 2021, 16:27

Big one ins't R-37M it is Novator KS-172, 1990s paper project. It was offered to India but India wasn't interested back then. RuAF also wasn't because of R-37 which was in development.

KS-172 is BUK SAM missile with added booster. So its range wasn't much better compared to R-37 tests in 1990s.

R-37M is R-37 with modern electronics, newer fuel and dual pulse engine, maybe old R-37 also had dual pulse engine too.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 25452
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post21 Jan 2021, 20:55

'Felon' on the loose! [10 page PDF of article below attached]
Feb 2021 Piotr Butowski

"Russia’s next-gen fighter, the Sukhoi Su-57, looks as dangerous as its nickname would suggest. Piotr Butowski charts the long gestation period preceding its unveiling in December 2020..."

Source: AIRFORCES Monthly February 2021 Issue 395
Attachments
FELON Loose AirForces Monthly Feb 2021 pp10.pdf
(2.31 MiB) Downloaded 572 times
FELONchuteShortLandingMAKS2019+sensors.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4291
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post23 Jan 2021, 15:10

Who the hell deploys their drag chute (fully!) before main gear touchdown?!
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 25452
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post23 Jan 2021, 19:43

I don't know when the concept first actuated however for example UK FANTOMS carried out 'short' landings in the Falklands with drag chutes out and HOOKS down! My o My! :mrgreen:
‘Dominator2’ 15 Oct 2014 “...I do have experience of the F4 Phantom. In the workup to deploying to Stanley we developed a technique for short landing the F4..... ...The normal approach AoA was 19.2 Units which gave a very safe margin above stall speed. The normal technique was not to flare but check the rate of descent. A firm touchdown was expected. The power should not be reduced until touchdown or BLC was lost and the result could be dire. Normally the chute was not deployed until on the ground.

For the Falklands we flew a 22.5 unit approach (approx. 20kts slower than normal), the chute was deployed prior to touchdown so that it was fully deployed at impact. The ac was flown onto the runway on the numbers. As soon as the throttles were at idle the brakes were applied. By the time one could focus after landing the speed was already below 100kts. We regularly stopped in less than 2000ft and with 20kts on the nose could manage a 1500ft rollout. Not too bad for a jet that normally needed 8000ft or more!....” http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation ... ost8699141

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org ... 3ebe6.jpeg Photo: Jeff Bell - 21 Apr 2019 'Dominator2': “...on 64(R) Sqn we perfected the short landing technique prior the Falklands deployment and managed to stop in 2500 ft without using a cable. The brakes, however, would be very hot. Chute deployment should occur so that full deployment occurred at touch-down and not before....” https://www.pprune.org/military-aviatio ... st10452602

Photo: http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff4 ... D_0021.jpg & https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org ... 3ebe6.jpeg
Attachments
FanTomFalklandsShortLandingHOOK+chute.jpg
FanTomFalklandsShortLandingHOOK+chute2.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4291
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post24 Jan 2021, 23:29

This is some crazy sh!t!!! Thanks you for the pics. Had I not seen them, I wouldn't have believed it.

After watching God knows how many episodes of air disasters, I really wonder why every commercial airliner built doesn't have an emergency drag chute. Would seem to be useful in the event of not just a "heavy" landing, but in the event of an aborted takeoff too.

I'm sure there's a good reason, but can't honestly think of one. Enough room? Check. Inexpensive (at least relative to engines, avionics, etc). Check. Reliable? Check. I must be missing something?
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 25452
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post30 Jan 2021, 07:37

Enter the Su-57 [4 page PDF of article attached]
Sep 2017 Piotr Butowski

"A new designation has been assigned to Russia’s first fifth-generation fighter developed under the Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsii programme. Piotr Butowski reports from MAKS 2017 in Zhukovsky...

..."After successful completion of the first stage of T-50 testing, a preliminary conclusion of the test programme was signed at MAKS 2017. The state commission recommended production of an initial batch of aircraft which are to be assigned the new Su-57 designation. All photos Piotr Butowski"

Source: Air International September 2017 Vol.93 No.3
Attachments
Su-57 Felon Air International Sep 2017 pp4.pdf
(641.77 KiB) Downloaded 47 times
Su-57felonT-50details.gif
FELONsForm.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Online

milosh

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1267
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
  • Location: Serbia, Belgrade

Unread post30 Jan 2021, 17:46

Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4291
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post30 Jan 2021, 17:53

Gorgeous bird Milosh, really is. And it's clear they take a lot of pride in what they're building.

They've come a long way since hammering rivets into Mig-21's, and stamping out thousands of them for both homeland defense and other countries. I'm not sure anyone else will buy the SU-57, buy I am excited to see what it can do in Russian service...
Offline

inst

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 120
  • Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 01:58

Unread post31 Jan 2021, 12:09

milosh wrote:
mixelflick wrote:And if all else fails, their J-20 will likely make short work of any Indian fighter put up against it. So that move too looks to have been a mistake IMO...


Can you explain were exactly? Over Chinese air space? Right but that would happen even if they had F-35/Su-57 or any other stealth, Chinese would have lot more J-20 and will have support from their ground radars.

But in Indian airspace J-20 is pray not hunter. Indian radar and sam network plus very capable AWACS (they have best AWACS in world) will locate it easily.

Btw Su-30MKI are getting R-37M as part of Su-30MKI big upgrade program. Missile was tested by Indians in 2019.

It look like India is getting engine tech from France:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ma ... 935614.cms

Well if that is true Rafale deal is superb and probable it would increase chance of Rafales in new MMCA program.


Which AEW&C aircraft are you talking about? Netra seems to be a balance-beam design a la KJ-200, which implies a smaller radar aperture. Indian A-50EI seems to be bearing the EL/W-2090, considered the "most advanced AEW&C system in the world"... as of 1993.

===

As regarding the Su-57's internal weapons load, the bays are roughly 1 meter each by about 4.6 meters (external), not including the internal accommodations for the weapons which tend to reduce usable bay size. It's possible to achieve 10 missile loadouts, but only in the same way you can stuff 12 SACMs in an F-22; i.e, you reduce the missile size.

The other way to do it, and I'm trying to locate images of the Su-57 with its weapons bay open, would be to stack the missiles in a two-layered fashion. That is to say, the first missile is affixed to the bay doors, as with the F-35, but the second missile would be launched from the ejector attached to the weapons bay. That's contingent, of course, on the Su-57 having a sufficiently deep weapons bay for that to work.

===

Personally, as someone who bashes the J-20 as a disappointment (in part because of the poor capacity of the weapons bay), if the Su-57 bays are deep enough to double stack it could make the Su-57 impressive in its own way. It might not be a decent stealth BVR fighter, but it'd have the capability to launch heavy strike weapons from well beyond stand-off distance.
PreviousNext

Return to Modern Military Aircraft

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests