J-20 goes operational again

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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milosh

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Unread post14 Nov 2021, 20:00

Lol, what modern US engine core China got? None. It can be quite hilarious what Chinese stronk (mostly Chinese folks) write on net, it look like they are really butt hurt because they copied lot of other stuff so now is trying to fix that with nonsense statements.

But that is expected from nation which have superiority complex for at least millennium.
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madrat

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Unread post14 Nov 2021, 22:50

element1loop wrote:
madrat wrote:When doubling range it goes up in circular area, not square area.


Wot?

/headslap lol
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weasel1962

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Unread post15 Nov 2021, 01:41

Increasing dispersal option is great. However if that increased option is the deep blue sea, then maybe not so great. That's what's driving my skepticism.
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Scorpion1alpha

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Unread post15 Nov 2021, 03:56

drago wrote:
BFB4B091-530F-4967-8389-224B1ADB8211.jpeg

Clean looking aircraft always gets my attention. Looks good.

Just for fun, if anyone is an Ace Combat gamer (I'm not, don't even have a PS4 or 5), you might like this mod that someone made of the J-20 in the game. Apparently, it's based on the FB-22 model and then morphed into the J-20. If anything it looks stunning in the various schemes.

I'm watching...
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ricnunes

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Unread post16 Nov 2021, 13:33

milosh wrote:Lol, what modern US engine core China got? None. It can be quite hilarious what Chinese stronk (mostly Chinese folks) write on net, it look like they are really butt hurt because they copied lot of other stuff so now is trying to fix that with nonsense statements.

But that is expected from nation which have superiority complex for at least millennium.


DITTO :thumb:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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jessmo112

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Unread post16 Nov 2021, 23:01

An interesting article on strategy page.
( ⚠️ warning copious amounts of salt required)

They are claiming that the Chinese claims about engine breakthroughs are premature at best.


WS-15 for J20 was believed possible by 2020, but changes in the shape and weight of the WS-15 would require modifications to the shape of the J20 which would require a lot of testing to ensure that stealth was not compromised. The factory would have to install new or modified manufacturing equipment and suppliers would have to do the same to produce the new airframe components. Apparently, the claim was that most of those problems were solved by mid-2020. This included the WS-15 reliability problems. The claim turned out to be premature. The WS-15 saga was one of repeated disappointments and there may be more of that. Some high-performance jet engines are more reliable than others. Western engine manufacturers have been through this for decades as each new generation of engines was developed. China knows of that history and is resigned to repeating it.


https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htpro ... 11115.aspx
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element1loop

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Unread post17 Nov 2021, 02:53

madrat wrote:
element1loop wrote:
madrat wrote:When doubling range it goes up in circular area, not square area.


Wot?

/headslap lol


lol ... that's cool mate.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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tphuang

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Unread post17 Nov 2021, 20:41

jessmo112 wrote:An interesting article on strategy page.
( ⚠️ warning copious amounts of salt required)

They are claiming that the Chinese claims about engine breakthroughs are premature at best.


WS-15 for J20 was believed possible by 2020, but changes in the shape and weight of the WS-15 would require modifications to the shape of the J20 which would require a lot of testing to ensure that stealth was not compromised. The factory would have to install new or modified manufacturing equipment and suppliers would have to do the same to produce the new airframe components. Apparently, the claim was that most of those problems were solved by mid-2020. This included the WS-15 reliability problems. The claim turned out to be premature. The WS-15 saga was one of repeated disappointments and there may be more of that. Some high-performance jet engines are more reliable than others. Western engine manufacturers have been through this for decades as each new generation of engines was developed. China knows of that history and is resigned to repeating it.


https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htpro ... 11115.aspx


strategy page is one of the worst sources for Chinese aviation news. Not saying we know for sure how far along WS-15 is. But I just wouldn't give 1 cent of credibility to strategy page.
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weasel1962

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Unread post09 Dec 2021, 15:00

Possible 3rd J-20 combat unit spotted.
https://scramble.nl/military-news/first ... igade-j-20
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jessmo112

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Unread post10 Jan 2022, 02:29

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weasel1962

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Unread post10 Jan 2022, 04:32

weasel1962 wrote:If an air force comprised 3G/4G fighters and the main potential aggressor has 5G fighters, the 1st order of the day is to train those 3G/4G fighters against 5G fighters.

If an air force has never used 5G fighters before, it makes sense to develop fighter tactics for a new 5G fighter. That means pitting the 5G fighter against other fighters.

If the surrounding neighbors use predominantly 4G fighters and one faces 4G CV-based fighters 1st, the last order of the day is to train the best fighter (i.e 5G) to tackle those 4G fighters.


Posted 2019 (pg 1 of thread) but still relevant.
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tphuang

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Unread post10 Jan 2022, 14:53

Quite interesting. I heard a piece about this particular exercise of J-20 vs J-16. The Chinese side cannot figure out how USAF achieved 144:0 kill ratio of F-22 to other aircraft. They are not sure if J-20 is just not good enough or their own 3rd generation aircraft (with similar generation of radar/EW suite as J-20) are too good or because the test scenarios was favoring F-22 too much for publicity reasons or because J-16s had more time support/training against J-20s. Regardless, they've never come close to achieving 144:0 in their DACT. It's lopsided, but not that lopsided.
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weasel1962

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Unread post12 Jan 2022, 06:14

Exercise ratios are less meaningful and at most reflects the ROE of the exercise which may or may not reflect real war conditions.

What is interesting to me is the tail-less J-20 photo circulated (dated June 2021) that appears to show the J-20 being fitted with a single TVC WS-15 (the other being a WS-10). Noted this is how China tests new engines before induction. Same was done for the WS-10 (together with an AL-31F) before its induction. Appears this new J-20 is undergoing testing at CFTE. Wonder whether production variants will also be tail-less.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Jan 2022, 07:22

weasel1962 wrote:Exercise ratios are less meaningful and at most reflects the ROE of the exercise which may or may not reflect real war conditions.

What is interesting to me is the tail-less J-20 photo circulated (dated June 2021) that appears to show the J-20 being fitted with a single TVC WS-15 (the other being a WS-10). Noted this is how China tests new engines before induction. Same was done for the WS-10 (together with an AL-31F) before its induction. Appears this new J-20 is undergoing testing at CFTE. Wonder whether production variants will also be tail-less.



You have a source.... :|
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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Jan 2022, 07:25

tphuang wrote:Quite interesting. I heard a piece about this particular exercise of J-20 vs J-16. The Chinese side cannot figure out how USAF achieved 144:0 kill ratio of F-22 to other aircraft. They are not sure if J-20 is just not good enough or their own 3rd generation aircraft (with similar generation of radar/EW suite as J-20) are too good or because the test scenarios was favoring F-22 too much for publicity reasons or because J-16s had more time support/training against J-20s. Regardless, they've never come close to achieving 144:0 in their DACT. It's lopsided, but not that lopsided.



Like the former Soviet Union, much of what comes out of China these days is smoke and mirrors. So, I wouldn't read too much into such stories....(just saying)
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