Rafale vs Su-35

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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wil59

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wil59

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Unread post25 Sep 2021, 12:06

wil59 wrote:https://idrw.org/rafales-spectra-ew-suite-jammed-su-35-radar-in-war-game-by-egyptian-air-force/

The Russian Su-35's radar was disabled by a powerful electronic warfare system.

The invulnerability of the Russian Su-35 fighter was called into question after learning that during a training battle, the Rafale fighter of the Egyptian Air Force, through the use of a complex of electronic suppression, was able to deactivate the radar station of the Russian fighter, in fact, blinding him. As a result, the training battle was lost by the Su-35 fighter.

“During training battles, the Su-35s attempted to attack the Rafale, playing the role of“ aggressor ”. With the help of Thales Spectra's enemy fire control protection and prevention system (electronic warfare equipment - electronic warfare), the French fighter still managed to flood the phased array of antennas (PAR) of the Su-35 radar. After disabling it, the Russian fighter could not aim the weapon at the enemy and was easily knocked out by Rafal. " - reports the publication" Moscow Komsomolets ".

Earlier, the Avia.pro news agency reported that, in the context of a training battle, the Russian fighter Su-35 had lost to the French Rafale, while he was in the attack, which raised many doubts about the effectiveness of this combat aircraft.

The exact number of training battles that took place between the Su-35 and Rafale fighters is still unknown. https://avia-pro.fr/news/istrebitel-raf ... kogo-su-35
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hythelday

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Unread post25 Sep 2021, 16:31

Hardly a surprise.
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icemaverick

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Unread post25 Sep 2021, 17:45

Stick a good AESA radar in the nose of the Su-35 and it might be a more competitive fight? Of course the Rafale still has the edge in terms of BVR missiles with the Meteor vs the Flanker’s R-77.

Edit: It looks like Egypt didn’t get the Meteor (https://sldinfo.com/2021/03/france-and- ... ns-meteor/).
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milosh

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Unread post25 Sep 2021, 19:00

icemaverick wrote:Stick a good AESA radar in the nose of the Su-35 and it might be a more competitive fight? Of course the Rafale still has the edge in terms of BVR missiles with the Meteor vs the Flanker’s R-77.

Edit: It looks like Egypt didn’t get the Meteor (https://sldinfo.com/2021/03/france-and- ... ns-meteor/).


They can get R-37 for Su-35. Or R-77M when production start. R-77M and Su-57:
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/m/art ... 07654.jpeg

Btw Su-35 don't have internal jammer so it probable couldn't jam at all. I didn't saw Egypt Su-35 with big pod jammers.
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wrightwing

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Unread post25 Sep 2021, 20:27

milosh wrote:
icemaverick wrote:Stick a good AESA radar in the nose of the Su-35 and it might be a more competitive fight? Of course the Rafale still has the edge in terms of BVR missiles with the Meteor vs the Flanker’s R-77.

Edit: It looks like Egypt didn’t get the Meteor (https://sldinfo.com/2021/03/france-and- ... ns-meteor/).


They can get R-37 for Su-35. Or R-77M when production start. R-77M and Su-57:
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/m/art ... 07654.jpeg

Btw Su-35 don't have internal jammer so it probable couldn't jam at all. I didn't saw Egypt Su-35 with big pod jammers.

The R-37 will never be mass produced, or the standard load out, for an OCA/DCA mission. Even the R-77 is available in limited numbers, much mess any more advanced variants. An AESA equipped Rafale, with Meteors, should always have a first look, first shoot advantage vs any Flanker.
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milosh

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Unread post25 Sep 2021, 21:22

wrightwing wrote:The R-37 will never be mass produced, or the standard load out, for an OCA/DCA mission. Even the R-77 is available in limited numbers, much mess any more advanced variants. An AESA equipped Rafale, with Meteors, should always have a first look, first shoot advantage vs any Flanker.


Egypt Rafales don't have meteors.

So Su-35 with R-37 for now is only option for long range combat. Mica lack range to compete with later AIM-120 versions, nor R-77. R-77M isn't in production.
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mixelflick

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Unread post26 Sep 2021, 15:24

Well isn't this interesting...

Surprising? To some maybe. But it does bode well for India's Rafale's, given they are getting meteor. Not unlike the reports of the J-10 downing SU-35's in Chinese exercises. Did those Flanker have RWR, jamming gear etc??
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wil59

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Unread post27 Sep 2021, 09:34

mixelflick wrote:Well isn't this interesting...

Surprising? To some maybe. But it does bode well for India's Rafale's, given they are getting meteor. Not unlike the reports of the J-10 downing SU-35's in Chinese exercises. Did those Flanker have RWR, jamming gear etc??

/// The Su-35 was sold to Egypt in its latest most modern version with irbis-e radar and latest generation electro optics in terms of the possibility of being equipped with jammers it remains a mystery. not having found any information on this.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post27 Sep 2021, 11:11

Problem with these training "battles" is that ROEs and restrictions are unknown. For example was the Irbis-E radar using all the frequencies or was the SPECTRA using all the power and techniques it has?

Anyway, it's not really surprising. PESA (and MSA) radars have inherent vulnerabilities to EW/EA as they have narrow bandwidth, relatively low sensitivity and lower gain along with rigid beamforming. This is why AESA radars are taking over quickly as they are significantly superior in all these and also have better reliability and lower maintenance requirements. Irbis-E is really not that impressive (although not that bad either) PESA radar despite having a very big antenna and powerful transmitter. I have no trouble believing that Rafale with SPECTRA, AESA radar and even current MICA missile can get an upper hand against Su-35 even in actual combat.
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Unread post27 Sep 2021, 13:17

But hey, if looking down the peephole is your thing, the Su-35 does it better than any other.
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milosh

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Unread post27 Sep 2021, 13:39

wil59 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Well isn't this interesting...

Surprising? To some maybe. But it does bode well for India's Rafale's, given they are getting meteor. Not unlike the reports of the J-10 downing SU-35's in Chinese exercises. Did those Flanker have RWR, jamming gear etc??

/// The Su-35 was sold to Egypt in its latest most modern version with irbis-e radar and latest generation electro optics in terms of the possibility of being equipped with jammers it remains a mystery. not having found any information on this.


Flanker do not have jammer. They use "dedicated" Flanker something similar to F-18 Growler, which do jamming for others:
https://defenceforumindia.com/attachmen ... peg.59396/

Latest Flanker pod jammers are based on AESA DRFM technology.
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mixelflick

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Unread post29 Sep 2021, 17:45

OK thanks Milosh, much appreciated...
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disconnectedradical

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Unread post30 Sep 2021, 14:43

The Su-35 was just introduced to the Egyptians, so they may still be developing tactics on how to use it. Without more context this isn’t very helpful.
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ricnunes

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Unread post30 Sep 2021, 19:47

milosh wrote:Flanker do not have jammer. They use "dedicated" Flanker something similar to F-18 Growler, which do jamming for others:
https://defenceforumindia.com/attachmen ... peg.59396/

Latest Flanker pod jammers are based on AESA DRFM technology.


I don't think that those Flanker wingtip jammers give them a similar capability as the Growler. I would say that those Flanker wingtip jammers would be similar in terms of capability to F-16 centerline jammer pods like the ALQ-131 which can be seen below:
Image

This is because both Flankers and F-16s don't have internal jammers.
Well, some F-16's (such as Israeli and Belgians) have internal jammers but that's another story...
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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