F-15EX

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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swiss

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Unread post19 Jul 2021, 20:12

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:For the E, yes. Not the C.


Thanks again.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post29 Jul 2021, 02:45

Possible solution to the F-15EX problem......EA-15EX??? (i.e. EW)

Navy's New Jamming Pods For EA-18G Growler Eyed For Air Force Fighters


QUOTE: The language that HASC is looking to include in the 2022 Fiscal Year NDAA wouldn't require the Air Force to consider any particular platforms to integrate NGJ pods onto, but the F-15EX would seem to be the most logical platform given its payload capacity and performance capabilities, and there have already been developments in terms of expanding the Eagle II's own EW capabilities. These aircraft will already feature the Eagle Passive/Active Warning Survivability System (EPAWSS), an extremely capable and expandable electronic warfare and electronic support measures suite. You can read all about EPAWSS here.

The F-15EX's future, in terms of capabilities, is largely undefined, but that is going to change as an open call exists for industry to come up with possibilities to leverage its unique abilities and open architecture systems. Adding a high-end jamming support capability would be quite an attractive and relevant option. It's possible the NGJ pods could eventually be integrated into the EPAWSS system, but that is uncertain at this time.

It's also worth noting that F-15E is getting EPAWSS too, so it could potentially be tapped to employ the NGJ variants, as well.


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... e-fighters
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madrat

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Unread post29 Jul 2021, 12:36

Seems like a tacit admission that SH has little future. The F-15 may be old school to the US, but it's still king outside the F-22A and F-35.
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mixelflick

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Unread post29 Jul 2021, 13:27

NGJ looks to be big, heavy and draggy (but mighty capable). Hopefully it shrinks as electronics get more and more miniaturized, but for now the EX is likely their best (tactical) platform to carry it.

Those new engines will be getting a workout if this comes to pass, that's for sure LOL.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post02 Aug 2021, 04:30

mixelflick wrote:NGJ looks to be big, heavy and draggy (but mighty capable). Hopefully it shrinks as electronics get more and more miniaturized, but for now the EX is likely their best (tactical) platform to carry it.

Those new engines will be getting a workout if this comes to pass, that's for sure LOL.


The NGJ won't get smaller........

Honestly, I doubt they could find the money for a Jammer version of the F-15EX.
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aaam

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Unread post04 Aug 2021, 19:40

Corsair1963 wrote:Honestly, this whole debate could easily be put to rest. If, they held a side by side Fighter Competition between the F-35A and F-15EX.


Yet, the current US Administration would never allow it.......... :?



Not sure what we'd learn that we don't already know... F-15 lifts more in both weight and size, has a radar that sees farther (partly a function of the larger antenna) and probably is more maneuverable for portions of the envelope. F-35 is far stealthier and has better networking.


Look at it another way: If the F-15EX could magically be made as stealthy as the F-35 with all the other specs the same, or the F-35 magically lost all its stealth which one would you use choose? Since even Penn and Teller can't pull of those tricks, therein lies the case for both.
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madrat

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Unread post04 Aug 2021, 21:53

It's a shame Tomcat 21 never had a chance to develop into Tomcat EX.

Super Hornet who?
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Corsair1963

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Unread post04 Aug 2021, 23:42

aaam wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Honestly, this whole debate could easily be put to rest. If, they held a side by side Fighter Competition between the F-35A and F-15EX.


Yet, the current US Administration would never allow it.......... :?



Not sure what we'd learn that we don't already know... F-15 lifts more in both weight and size, has a radar that sees farther (partly a function of the larger antenna) and probably is more maneuverable for portions of the envelope. F-35 is far stealthier and has better networking.


Look at it another way: If the F-15EX could magically be made as stealthy as the F-35 with all the other specs the same, or the F-35 magically lost all its stealth which one would you use choose? Since even Penn and Teller can't pull of those tricks, therein lies the case for both.


No, in general the F-15EX doesn't carry more than the F-35A. As the payload is drastically reduced by carrying so much external fuel. Honestly, this has been discussed countless times before.....

It is true the F-15EX could carry a couple larger weapons on the inner most pylon than the F-35A. (5,000 lbs +) Yet, that would be an extremely rare case. Plus, such heavy loads would more likely be carried by bombers anyways. That can carry a large number of them over great distance.....

As for the Radar on the F-15EX. It is larger and has more range. Yet, the F-35A can get far closer......This is why many discuss "Real World" conditions instead of some generic numbers! What is important is what each aircraft can do under real combat scenarios. As it has been discussed many times before. The F-15 doesn't fly at Mach 2.5 or carry 23,000 lbs external payloads. Regardless, what is printed on a brochure......

Finally, the USN just stated it didn't want new Super Hornets. Because they wouldn't be viable before the end of their service lives!

Clearly, this also applies to types like the F-15EX.... :wink:

QUOTE: New Super Hornets will not be a suitable platform by the end of their 30-year service life, Loiselle said Tuesday at the Navy League's Sea-Air-Space Conference.


"That takes us out to about 2055," he said. "There isn't a lot of analysis out there that supports fourth-generation viability against any threat in that timeframe.

https://insidedefense.com/insider/loise ... N_ZbXFTUKY
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mixelflick

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Unread post06 Aug 2021, 16:34

Certainly if it was JUST one or the other going into combat, sure. But neither will operate in a vacum. They certainly won't be first in and likewise won't be flying alone (tankers, AWACS, jamming aircraft). But 3rd day of war type stuff, assuming NGAD/PCA etc do their job of attaining complete air superiority? Probably a place for them, especially when the airframes are built to last so long.

Because they'll need a backup plan if there are more defense cuts, we get down to 1 fighter manufacturer or if there's not enough time to wait for new airframes.

Those kind of things happen, especially with poor planning. And that never happens in DOD, does it?
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aaam

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Unread post07 Aug 2021, 02:14

Corsair:

Some of those points are subject to , but I don't want to go down that rabbit hole which often seems to happen with the F-35 even among those who support the aircraft but at different levels.

I do want to comment on the "As for the Radar on the F-15EX. It is larger and has more range. Yet, the F-35A can get far closer....." point, though. This often raised, but actually isn't relevant unless we're talking about an F-15EX vs. an F-35A, which hopefully will never happen. The comparison is of either these aircrafts' radar against a third party target, air or ground. Sooner or later, you've got to turn the radar on to detect/track/target the enemy aircraft. In this case the acknowledged stealthiness of the F-35 doesn't come into play. You're going to need the radar to find and shoot the other guy, especially if you are in an environment where you have to rely on your own sensors -can't assume that offboard sensors will always be available every time you want them Same situation in an a/g environment. You also want to shoot from as far as possible, that's kind of the point of all our work on increasing the range of our powered weapons. It's not a hate thing to say that the F-15EX's radar sees farther than the F-35's.

In any case, my original point was that there's not much point in having a competition between F-35 and F-15EX. We pretty much know the differences between the two already.
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aaam

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Unread post07 Aug 2021, 02:19

madrat wrote:It's a shame Tomcat 21 never had a chance to develop into Tomcat EX.

Super Hornet who?


If we had built the Super Tomcat 21, there wouldn't have been any need for an EX version, IMHO. Also, under USN's plan, it would have been starting to phase out around 2015 being replaced by a clean-sheet aircraft.

In any case we wouldn't have had Saudi Arabia or Qatar funding the development work that made an EX version possible. :wink:
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milosh

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Unread post07 Aug 2021, 16:29

Corsair1963 wrote:It is true the F-15EX could carry a couple larger weapons on the inner most pylon than the F-35A. (5,000 lbs +) Yet, that would be an extremely rare case. Plus, such heavy loads would more likely be carried by bombers anyways. That can carry a large number of them over great distance.....


Not simple as that.

For example I didn't saw Russians are talking about Kindzal and Tu-95? Tu-95 can carry lot more of those then MiG-31 and more then Tu-22?

Maybe because Kindzal do have some launch regime which demand super sonic speed?

So if you want to fire hypersonic or ramjet missile which don't have big buster only option are super sonic platforms. B-1B is going to be retired, all other bombers are subsonic, so only option is F-15X.
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madrat

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Unread post07 Aug 2021, 17:04

milosh wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:It is true the F-15EX could carry a couple larger weapons on the inner most pylon than the F-35A. (5,000 lbs +) Yet, that would be an extremely rare case. Plus, such heavy loads would more likely be carried by bombers anyways. That can carry a large number of them over great distance.....


Not simple as that.

For example I didn't saw Russians are talking about Kindzal and Tu-95? Tu-95 can carry lot more of those then MiG-31 and more then Tu-22?

Maybe because Kindzal do have some launch regime which demand super sonic speed?

So if you want to fire hypersonic or ramjet missile which don't have big buster only option are super sonic platforms. B-1B is going to be retired, all other bombers are subsonic, so only option is F-15X.

WTH does MiG-31 have to do with F-15EX having stronger inner pylons than F-15EX?? Please keep your rose colored, Russian stronk glasses in the appropriate thread topics.
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madrat

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Unread post07 Aug 2021, 17:15

aaam wrote:
madrat wrote:It's a shame Tomcat 21 never had a chance to develop into Tomcat EX.

Super Hornet who?


If we had built the Super Tomcat 21, there wouldn't have been any need for an EX version, IMHO. Also, under USN's plan, it would have been starting to phase out around 2015 being replaced by a clean-sheet aircraft.

In any case we wouldn't have had Saudi Arabia or Qatar funding the development work that made an EX version possible. :wink:

Planned obsolescence in 2015 probably meant true phase-out in about 2030-2040 range at a current fighter development pace.

The F-14 had one advantage over F-15 and it wasn't the swingwing mechanism. F-14 had podded engines which would likely have made engine upgrades easier to accomplish. It also had a substantially larger nose and forward fuselage that has it's obvious advantages. It's a shame the F-14 and F-15 couldn't have some common lineage so upgrades to one were more straight forward for the other. F-15 could have used that telescoic lens and the under-intake attachment points. F-14 could have used the CFT, MSIP, RWR, and other internal ECM equipment of F-15. You probably couldn't have done much with where the two designs diverged, like lack of hardpoints on the swingwing.
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milosh

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Unread post07 Aug 2021, 18:31

madrat wrote:WTH does MiG-31 have to do with F-15EX having stronger inner pylons than F-15EX?? Please keep your rose colored, Russian stronk glasses in the appropriate thread topics.


:roll:

So all you see I mentioned MiG-31?!? I tried to explain why you need F-15EX for some weapons instead bombers even though bombers looks as better choice. But nope you just saw MiG-31 and that trigged you.
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