J-20 goes operational again

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post10 Mar 2021, 02:08

jessmo112 wrote:https://breakingdefense.com/2021/03/could-ukrainian-firm-solve-chinas-jet-engine-problem/

Great article here



Absurd...full of the usual spin and things taken out of context. Sure the US wouldn't want Ukraine to sell the company to China. As they and much of the free world. Want Ukraine to reform and say under Western Influences not Chinese and/or Russian.


Nor, would China purchasing the company be some silver bullet to fix all of their problems.


Honestly, this is the problem with much of the media. They hear something and then jump to a whole list of assumptions and wild conclusions. Which, most have little basis in fact....

More like gossip from the little old lady down the street. That has nothing better to do than peak out her window and speculate on what is going on with everybody else...
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Corsair1963

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Unread post21 Apr 2021, 10:38

China’s J-20 ‘Mighty Dragon’ fighters set to get purpose-built engines ‘within next two years’

The fifth-generation jets were designed to compete with US F-22s but have been using stopgap engines that limited their speed and combat capabilities
China has spent two decades trying to master the technology behind the WS-15 engine, which a military source says is now almost ready to enter service.


The WS-15 engine has been specially designed for the J-20 and is designed to improve its maneuverability and combat capabilities.

“The development of WS-15 is nearly complete … or may be finished within one or two years,” said the source, who requested anonymity due to the sensitivity of the topic.

The source added that the project had fallen behind schedule and had taken more than 10 years but the upgrade means “it will be on a par with the American Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor”.

On Monday, Hong Kong-based Phoenix Television broadcast an interview with Li Gang, the pilot who made the J-2o’s maiden flight, in which he said the new engines would maximize the fifth-generation fighter’s capabilities.

At the time of the plane’s debut in 2011 – which was timed to coincide with a visit to Beijing by then-US defence secretary Robert Gates – it was fitted with Russian Saturn Al-31 engines.

These were designed for fourth-generation fighters, which meant the new fighter was less agile than the US planes it was supposed to compete with.

The American Raptors are fitted with engines that use two-dimensional thrust-vectoring nozzles – a technology China has been trying to master for two decades and which will be used in the new engines.

These nozzles allow the direction of the engine thrust to be controlled, which means the plane can perform sudden manoeuvres that conventional aircraft cannot – for example avoiding missiles.

China has made some progress in this field and in 2018 it unveiled the WS-10C Taihang engine, which offers greater maneuverability but less power than the WS-15.

But the WS-15 engine failed its final evaluation in 2019 and the WS-10C, first tested on a single-engine fighter, has been used as a stopgap for the twin-engined J-20.

The J-20 was designed to be a fifth-generation stealth fighter jet on par with Lockheed’s F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning multirole strike fighters.

The fighters were rushed into service by the People’s Liberation Army in 2017 after the Pentagon started deploying its F-35s in the Asia-Pacific region.

The PLA currently has 50 J-20s in service and the military source said the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) is expected to produce another 50 by the end of this year.

“But compared with the Lockheed Martin production line, which is able to deliver more than 100 F-35s every year, each of the CAC’s [four] production lines only has the capacity to make about one J-20 a month,” the source said.


https://www.scmp.com/news/china/militar ... CIxzYVAmI8
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Scorpion1alpha

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Unread post28 Apr 2021, 13:17

Still keeping an eye on the competition.
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The two-seat J-20 rumors are persisting...
I'm watching...
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sferrin

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Unread post28 Apr 2021, 17:44

Corsair1963 wrote:The PLA currently has 50 J-20s in service and the military source said the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) is expected to produce another 50 by the end of this year.

“But compared with the Lockheed Martin production line, which is able to deliver more than 100 F-35s every year, each of the CAC’s [four] production lines only has the capacity to make about one J-20 a month,” the source said.


They should be comparing that to the F-22 line which is producing NONE per year. At this rate there should be more J-20s than F-22s in a few years. Thanks Robert Gates.
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Unread post29 Apr 2021, 00:53

sferrin wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:The PLA currently has 50 J-20s in service and the military source said the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) is expected to produce another 50 by the end of this year.

“But compared with the Lockheed Martin production line, which is able to deliver more than 100 F-35s every year, each of the CAC’s [four] production lines only has the capacity to make about one J-20 a month,” the source said.


They should be comparing that to the F-22 line which is producing NONE per year. At this rate there should be more J-20s than F-22s in a few years. Thanks Robert Gates.



What's the problem...the F-35 should be more than a match for the J-20. Which, we can produce in large numbers for both the US Military and our many Allies.


In short we should be thanking "Bob Gates".... :wink:
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Unread post29 Apr 2021, 01:01

We can only assume that production of the J-20 will continue to ramp up as time goes on and markedly so over the next year or two!


In addition the really big question mark. Is the forthcoming J-31/J-35....like how is it coming, when will it enter service, what numbers will in be produced in, etc. etc. etc.
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Unread post29 Apr 2021, 01:52

What a hoky looking fighter :roll:
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Unread post29 Apr 2021, 03:37

jetblast16 wrote:What a hoky looking fighter :roll:



Most don't consider the Apache or A-10 Warthog to be the most attractive. Yet, most are far more concern with winning the battle and less about any beauty pageant.
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Unread post29 Apr 2021, 16:59

sferrin wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:The PLA currently has 50 J-20s in service and the military source said the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) is expected to produce another 50 by the end of this year.

“But compared with the Lockheed Martin production line, which is able to deliver more than 100 F-35s every year, each of the CAC’s [four] production lines only has the capacity to make about one J-20 a month,” the source said.


They should be comparing that to the F-22 line which is producing NONE per year. At this rate there should be more J-20s than F-22s in a few years. Thanks Robert Gates.


F-22 range is smaller then F-35A so it wouldnt cut it. You need long range fighter to counter China. NGAD would be prefered but also some scaled up F-35A, for example F-35C as base with added CFT and of course without reinforcement and equipment needed for carrier operations.
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Unread post18 Jun 2021, 10:20

Official confirmation (Jun 18, China time) that a 2nd combat unit (1st Air Brigade) is now equipped with J-20s. Apparently the unit flew its J-20s over a training school where a review was held and the press got official confirmation of the unit's new fighters.
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sferrin

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Unread post18 Jun 2021, 12:13

Corsair1963 wrote:
sferrin wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:The PLA currently has 50 J-20s in service and the military source said the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC) is expected to produce another 50 by the end of this year.

“But compared with the Lockheed Martin production line, which is able to deliver more than 100 F-35s every year, each of the CAC’s [four] production lines only has the capacity to make about one J-20 a month,” the source said.


They should be comparing that to the F-22 line which is producing NONE per year. At this rate there should be more J-20s than F-22s in a few years. Thanks Robert Gates.



What's the problem...the F-35 should be more than a match for the J-20. Which, we can produce in large numbers for both the US Military and our many Allies.


In short we should be thanking "Bob Gates".... :wink:


Wishful thinking is not an effective strategy.
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Unread post24 Jun 2021, 12:57

Gates and other big-shots get the big money (and bigger pensions) to make the right decisions - not excuses. Here's the Bill Gates highlight reel...

* In April 2009, called for ending F-22 production in FY2011
* January 2011 Gates arrives in China, where the Chinese promptly fly the J-20 over his head

So if he didn't know he f'd up in 2009, he certainly did just 2 years later. He still could have salvaged the F-22 at that point, but decided not to.

“I asked President Hu about it directly, and he said that the test had absolutely nothing to do with my visit and had been a pre-planned test,” Gates told reporters. Asked whether he believed that, Gates said: “I take President Hu at his word that the test had nothing to do with my visit.”

He appears dumb as a stump too, though he's at least a useful idiot. The Chinese probably still send him thank you cards... I know I would.



He let the Air Force and the nation down.



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milosh

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Unread post24 Jun 2021, 18:42

Well if USAF thought F-22 is must have they could save it by reducing F-35 order, but that happen so I am pretty sure USAF consider F-35 better option then something design for bygone era, ATF was cold war dinosaurs with quite narrow mission to intercept soviet fighters and bombers over Germany. So range wasn't that important, friendly bases were all around.

In case of Pacific from where exactly F-22 can take off and that base isn't in range of Chinese precise airfield buster weapons?

Tankers aren't option when Chinese have stealths, and even non stealths with that 6meter long missile are quite capable at engaging tankers for safer distance.
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Unread post25 Jun 2021, 04:30

It was a question of whether to order 20x3 F22s ($4b x 3) for a further 3 year MYP (FY10-12) to meet the original 250 minimum. If one looked at budgets, it was relatively flat for aircraft procurement at ~$4b annually. In FY2011, $4b was exactly the amount spent on F-35s and held at roughly that until FY 2016 ($6b) when the F-35 production started to trend upwards.

It would have required Obama to justify doubling the combat aircraft procurement budget at a time he was trying to implement Obamacare. Noted Congress was willing to fund more but again that's 1 year at lower numbers (which would have been more expensive without an MYP) and how long could Congress continue in the context of the then situation.

At some point it is logical buying more F-22 would have eaten into F-35 budget. That would have been clear to the AF because they would have projected F-35 buy numbers. At that time the primary mission was Iraq and Afghanistan, neither theater needed F-22.

Arguing China is a threat in FY08/09 would have seemed ridiculous. The J-20 wasn't even flying. US GDP was 3x China in 2008. China military budget was $50+b. At China threat level today, the USAF doesn't seem able to argue for another 20 F-35As annually. Gates is water under the bridge. Can't change the past. The issue is making the same mistake every year by not funding more fighters & NGAD (and worse not even realizing it). Some might not remember but people also balked at F-22 support costs. History repeating with F-35.
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