F-4s in Vietnam

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

ford2go

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 87
  • Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 18:13

Unread post03 Sep 2018, 06:04

I was just watching a Smithsonian show about the Phantoms. They did a big spread on WIld Weasel and then they cut to the Vietnam era.

For that era, they went almost exclusively with Navy effforts. They did have a short bit that mentioned Rolling Thunder, but not much.

This isn't the first show that I've seen that seemed to go that way. I'm just curious about the relative particiapation levels of the Navy and USAF during that period. I'm not anti Navy or anything of the sort, I'm just a bit curious. I did some googling, but didn't find a lot of info.

I was with the 8th at Ubon 66-67 -- just a simple Nav repair guy. But I thought that they flew an awful lot of missions.

Just curious,

hj
Offline

35_aoa

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 492
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2015, 04:03
  • Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Unread post03 Sep 2018, 07:45

Not sure where you are going with this, but I would say that historical accounts would probably support that both the USN and USAF flew an awful lot of sorties in support of the conflict respectively. I think both also hung themselves out to dry pretty equally in the route pack system. There were a lot of guys that spent time in hanoi with both colors of shoulder insignia.......
Online
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 7384
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post03 Sep 2018, 08:36

For the Phantom losses in IndoChina, Wiki cites the following stats:
F-4 Phantom II—445 total, 382 in combat
F-4 Phantom—138 total, 75 in combat
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline

ford2go

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 87
  • Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 18:13

Unread post03 Sep 2018, 16:58

Thanks guys,

Not really trying to prove anything -- just curious. I thought that the scale of AF and Navy were probably pretty comparable.

The same show also described the Migs as a nasty surprise. I would guess that the US knew all about them. I often wonder about the 'facts' in documentaries.

Thanks again,

hj
Offline

basher54321

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1511
  • Joined: 02 Feb 2014, 15:43

Unread post03 Sep 2018, 17:58

USAF only combat Sorties and losses 1977


USAF F-4 combat Sorties.JPG
Offline

basher54321

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1511
  • Joined: 02 Feb 2014, 15:43

Unread post03 Sep 2018, 18:49

1976 USN

Sorties

USN F-4 Vietnam Sorties.JPG



USN F-4 Combat Losses

usn f4 losses.JPG
Offline
User avatar

Gums

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2127
  • Joined: 16 Dec 2003, 17:26

Unread post05 Sep 2018, 02:54

Salute!

My understanding is that the SEAD role was first called "Iron Hand" by both the USN and USAF. The air defense suppression was originlly flown by embedded assests in the wing, and seems to me it stayed that way in the USN. . The USAF soon fielded dedicated SEAD outfits called Wild Weasels, although sometimes they had "help" from the "regular" folks. USN kept the "Iron Hand" designation, and and I do not believe they ever had dedicated units like USAF.

USAF only had a handful of dedicated Weasel units, maybe three or four squadrons at most. Could be a few squads of Thuds had a flight dedicated to the Weasel mission, but I'd have to ask. During Linebacker in 1972 we had the Weasels at Korat in Thuds and some F-4 Weasels from Korea or Japan or ????

So any coverage of the USN air war of the era would have more "Iron Hand" aircraft/crews in the show.

That's my take.

Gums sends...
Gums
Viper pilot '79
"God in your guts, good men at your back, wings that stay on - and Tally Ho!"
Offline

piston

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 135
  • Joined: 07 May 2014, 18:36

Unread post05 Sep 2018, 22:11

basher54321 wrote:USAF only combat Sorties and losses 1977


USAF F-4 combat Sorties.JPG


Is there info about losses by cause? It could be not only for F-4-s...
Offline

basher54321

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1511
  • Joined: 02 Feb 2014, 15:43

Unread post05 Sep 2018, 23:23

USAF F-4CDE only


K = Flew less than 5nm after being hit
A = Flew 5 to 50 nm after being hit
B = Flew more than 50nm after being hit

SA/AW = Small Arms / Automatic Weapons

usaf F4 loss type.JPG
F-4 losses by threat type
Offline
User avatar

edpop

Senior member

Senior member

  • Posts: 431
  • Joined: 02 Feb 2008, 20:43
  • Location: Macomb, Michigan

Unread post06 Sep 2018, 05:23

Everything you wanted to know about the Vietnam Air War but were afraid to ask. I bought this set back in the late 80's when they came out.Tons of info if you really want to go deep on this subject. They are soft cover journals. Had a buddy who was a crew chief on a Wild Weasel Thud out of Takhli in the 70's sometime.
Attachments
IMG_20180906_0001.jpg
IMG_20180906_0002.jpg
IMG_20180906_0003.jpg
IMG_20180906_0004.jpg
IMG_20180906_0005.jpg
Vietnam veteran (Combat Engineer) 1967
Retired from Chrysler Engineering
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2342
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post07 Sep 2018, 16:17

This is an interesting topic, particularly when comparing the Navy and Air Force birds..

You always hear about how the F-4 was hamstrung by not having an internal cannon. As I understand it though, only the Air Force F-4's flew with a gun pod, not the Navy birds. Yet when it came to win/loss ratio's, the Navy was far and away more successful.

It wasn't THE gun, but TOP gun that spelled the difference... :)

Return to Military Aircraft of the Cold War

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest