FULL PDF: Poststall flight in close combat

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gta4

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 02:22

https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.1983-2120

A computer simulation of close range gun fight between aircraft A and B.

Aircraft A: has far better conventional turn capability than fulcrums and flankers (aircraft A can acheive almost 30 deg/sec SUSTAINED!)
Aircraft B: similar to F-35, it can perform J-turn. However its other performances are inferior to F-35. Its T/W is only 0.75.

Result: Aircraft B dominates the dogfight. Even we give some initial positional advantage to A for free, this advantage is quickly neutrlized in less than one turn.

FULL PDF:
Poststall Flight in Close Combat.pdf
(282.36 KiB) Downloaded 197 times
Last edited by gta4 on 05 Jun 2018, 16:50, edited 1 time in total.
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wrightwing

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 03:57

Can you post more of the PDF?
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garrya

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 06:39

I can't download the PDF either.
IIRC, they found out from X-31 test that post stall maneuver can be countered by going vertical
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juretrn

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 10:31

FFS gta4, give it a rest with the freaking J-turn already. Sounds exactly like Flanker groupies with their incessant "muh TV"...
Russia stronk
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lbk000

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 14:46

Muh Cobra
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vilters

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 15:15

Loose speed = Loose fight.

You can add a ton af math profs, and another ton of simms to the game.

In the end?
Loose speed = loose fight.


Believing in a 100% kill probability (or the lucky shot) is like playing the lottery. => Extremely few winners.
Wanna bet?
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spazsinbad

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 15:23

Lose vs. Loose vs. Loosen: What’s the Difference? https://writingexplained.org/lose-versu ... difference
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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steve2267

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 15:34

vilters wrote:Loose speed = Loose fight.

You can add a ton af math profs, and another ton of simms to the game.

In the end?
Loose speed = loose fight.


Believing in a 100% kill probability (or the lucky shot) is like playing the lottery. => Extremely few winners.
Wanna bet?


This is an oversimplification.

Yes, speed is life, and in general one wants to keep one's energy up. But as QS has stated here before, many a lesser experienced pilot has "energy managed" himself into a mort. The really good pilots know when to trade their energy chips in for an angles advantage and get the kill. It all "depends", but it is what makes a good Hornet pilot so dangerous.

What appears to make the F-35 so dangerous is that it apparently can do both -- either play the energy game, or play the trade-energy-for-angles game (i.e. high alpha). So the F-35 would appear to really reward the savvy fighter pilot.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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gta4

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 16:49

OK here is the FULL PDF:
Poststall Flight in Close Combat.pdf
(282.36 KiB) Downloaded 133 times
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sferrin

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 17:05

Click bait title. :slap:
"There I was. . ."
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sferrin

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 17:06

vilters wrote:Loose speed = Loose fight.

You can add a ton af math profs, and another ton of simms to the game.

In the end?
Loose speed = loose fight.


Believing in a 100% kill probability (or the lucky shot) is like playing the lottery. => Extremely few winners.
Wanna bet?


So Cobra and all those other fancy Flanker maneuvers are useless right? Right?
"There I was. . ."
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gta4

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 17:21

sferrin wrote:
vilters wrote:Loose speed = Loose fight.

You can add a ton af math profs, and another ton of simms to the game.

In the end?
Loose speed = loose fight.


Believing in a 100% kill probability (or the lucky shot) is like playing the lottery. => Extremely few winners.
Wanna bet?


So Cobra and all those other fancy Flanker maneuvers are useless right? Right?

cobra is useless Because no matter How much angle It pitch up, It will be bounced back immediately, neutralizing the total angle of pointing.
The maneuver studied in this paper is J turn , which has 180deg heading reversal. It has Very high effective angle of pointing.
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basher54321

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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 17:35

garrya wrote:IIRC, they found out from X-31 test that post stall maneuver can be countered by going vertical



My favourite part was where the NASA author stated they had pretty much just relearnt a lesson from WW1 :D

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