Penetrating Counter Air / Next Generation Air Dominance

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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milosh

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Unread post08 Nov 2019, 23:28

knowan wrote:
milosh wrote:8200kg on LM site:

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/pr ... tions.html

I found 410nnm is F-22 super cruise combat radius so supersonic combat radius > 750km mentioned for Su-57 v1.0 is realistic. It would need type 30 to have noticeable better supersonic combat radius then F-22.


The entire F-1A fuel tank would have to be unused for 8,200 kg to be correct.

Also, you're talking about 80% greater supersonic combat radius for at best 25% more fuel (assuming 8,200 kg of fuel is the correct figure).
While combat radius vs fuel isn't an exact correlation, 80% greater range is still way too high for 25% more fuel.


410nm not 410km, big difference. Su-57 with 117 have better supersonic range then F-22 but difference isn't huge, I mean if Pogi talked about at least 1500km that would be +750km radius which is little more then 740km of F-22.

I found earlier on net some text about supersonic flights of F-22, it look like USAF start flying them faster then speed of sound were it is possible (because of sonic boom) because it is more efficient then subsonic flights. If someone can google that text it would be quite interesting for read.

knowan wrote:It doesn't make up for the terrible cockpit setup, as the datalinks contacts are still displayed with limited in the HDD, with all the limitations.


I posted here how it look on HDD it isn't terrible at for that era. Btw I think datalink info would be display on HUD too which helps a lot.

And it would be nice to know about datalink capability of F-15 from 1980s which was Su-27 direct competitor.
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knowan

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Unread post09 Nov 2019, 05:32

milosh wrote:410nm not 410km, big difference. Su-57 with 117 have better supersonic range then F-22 but difference isn't huge, I mean if Pogi talked about at least 1500km that would be +750km radius which is little more then 740km of F-22.

I found earlier on net some text about supersonic flights of F-22, it look like USAF start flying them faster then speed of sound were it is possible (because of sonic boom) because it is more efficient then subsonic flights. If someone can google that text it would be quite interesting for read.


Ah my mistake, I missed the nm vs km.


milosh wrote:I posted here how it look on HDD it isn't terrible at for that era. Btw I think datalink info would be display on HUD too which helps a lot.


Datalink info doesn't display on the HUD in the DCS video you linked, so it probably doesn't IRL. And while the HDD doesn't look terrible at first glance, it only provides rough speed and altitude for contacts.

And speaking of DCS, players of that simulation agree the Su-27's situational awareness is definitely inferior to that of the F-15, even though that simulation models the Su-27's datalink capability.
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milosh

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Unread post10 Nov 2019, 09:09

knowan wrote:Datalink info doesn't display on the HUD in the DCS video you linked, so it probably doesn't IRL. And while the HDD doesn't look terrible at first glance, it only provides rough speed and altitude for contacts.

And speaking of DCS, players of that simulation agree the Su-27's situational awareness is definitely inferior to that of the F-15, even though that simulation models the Su-27's datalink capability.


DCS is right, I ask guy how read official manual and it doesn't display on HUD.

So I agree about small display could be problem especially in single seater but I dont think (maybe F-18 had bigger radar display in 1980s) any other fighter had noticable bigger display (doesn't count two seaters)

Interestingly Su-27 display could use to show navigation way points something which I wouldn't expect in soviet fighter. So it wasn't just simple radar display but first soviet MFD.

Good video of fighter datalink fuction in 1980s Su-27, pilots would know which target is illuminated and or attacked by other fighters in formation. I didn't know Su-27 had that capability at all back then (for MiG-31 I knew it had):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOxV8Lg ... =emb_title

DCS opions are different, most people agree overrall SA is better for Su-27, many F-15 pilots are bitching why Su-27 had datalinks (not just fighter datalink but also Lazur) because F-15 don't have one BUT on other hand Su-27 combat SA against F-15 is awful because of SPO-15 which don't work against AIM-120 in DCS. In 1980s SPO-15 had much easier job because of SARH missiles.
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