Indian Mirage 2000 hits targets in Pakistan

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knuckles

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 05:05

Corsair1963 wrote:
knuckles wrote:
I don't know Wing Commander Varhaman. Never heard of that name. I posted a picture of the supposed dead Wing Commander Shahbaz Ali, that the Indian media is now declaring to have been killed in a supposed dogfight. The picture was taken a few days ago at Montgomery, Alabama. He's currently attending a course at Maxwell AFB.

My background.....I did some FTE (as an engineer) time on Vipers. My dad is a Viper driver from Pakistan AF originally, hence I've been born in the air force community. PM me if you want more info.

Cheers !!!


Many claims on all sides. So, I am sure you can see why many are somewhat skeptical. Especially, considering most have proven to be false!

In addition most here only want the truth. So, it's not about siding with Pakistan or India.

Respectfully

Respectfully agreed. I want the truth no more or less than you do or anybody else on this forum. Please don't you mistake me about siding with who and who.

And interesting link you posted some posts back with No.19 squadron. My old man flew F-7s (MiG-21s) as an IP with that squadron back in late 1990s and was the flight commander of that squadron. Here is one of him a few years before that time in a Viper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FGQueERKlg
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vm

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 05:55

knuckles wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
knuckles wrote:
I don't know Wing Commander Varhaman. Never heard of that name. I posted a picture of the supposed dead Wing Commander Shahbaz Ali, that the Indian media is now declaring to have been killed in a supposed dogfight. The picture was taken a few days ago at Montgomery, Alabama. He's currently attending a course at Maxwell AFB.

My background.....I did some FTE (as an engineer) time on Vipers. My dad is a Viper driver from Pakistan AF originally, hence I've been born in the air force community. PM me if you want more info.

Cheers !!!


Many claims on all sides. So, I am sure you can see why many are somewhat skeptical. Especially, considering most have proven to be false!

In addition most here only want the truth. So, it's not about siding with Pakistan or India.

Respectfully

Respectfully agreed. I want the truth no more or less than you do or anybody else on this forum. Please don't you mistake me about siding with who and who.

And interesting link you posted some posts back with No.19 squadron. My old man flew F-7s (MiG-21s) as an IP with that squadron back in late 1990s and was the flight commander of that squadron. Here is one of him a few years before that time in a Viper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FGQueERKlg

Nice. Could you discuss with him why the pak army didn't open the madrassa to media till date to negate the Indian version of hitting the JEM madrassa.? Its such a easy thing to do. Give the international and domestic media access to the compound and prove the Indians wrong. Its been 2 weeks. And why is the pak army even controlling access to a madrassa.?
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knuckles

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 06:06

vm wrote:Nice. Could you discuss with him why the pak army didn't open the madrassa to media till date to negate the Indian version of hitting the JEM madrassa.? Its such a easy thing to do. Give the international and domestic media access to the compound and prove the Indians wrong. Its been 2 weeks. And why is the pak army even controlling access to a madrassa.?

I believe this post is more politically affiliated. That is out of my area of interest and I do not want to fill this particular thread up with content I do not know on what is currently happening in between Pakistan and India lately. There are too many grey areas.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 07:51

Clearly, the majority just want to know what "really" happen....


Yet, beginning to doubt we will ever really know???
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mair

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 09:03

Speaking of the ‘truth’ I would just like to state that it’s factually incorrect for those who are stating that India carried out the Balakot air strikes ‘in retaliation’ for the pulwama terror attack.
https://www.google.com./amp/s/www.bbc.c ... a-47366718

The Indian foreign secretary Vijay Gokhale categorically said the air strikes were preemptive, and NOT retaliatory. That they supposedly had credible intelligence that JeM was planning another major suicide attack in India thus this action became necessary. It was to stop another imminent future attack , and not revenge for pulwama that these air strikes were carried out.
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weasel1962

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 11:21

Well, looking at the some Indian narrative, it can be summarised as follows:

(a) The Indians flattened every single building they bombed (the buildings may have been wooden with long stems and green roofs).
(b) The IAF bombed because they had info that every monkey terrorists that even intended to target India was in those buildings. It is possible they even bombed the surrounding trees just in case the monkeys climbed them.
(c) The IAF fought the entire Pakisani air force comprising F-16s, Mirages and more F-16 (JF017s)s thereafter
(d) The IAF fought with just one mig-21. The Sukhois were too far away and not required.
(e) They managed to shoot down half the PAF, noting several pilot names, parachutes and even sight the pilot's fathers.
(f) Unfortunately the mig-21 crashed like all the other 500 mig-21s before it. But not after dodging 100 AMRAAMs and countless other F-16 missiles known as the SD-10 using its EL-8222 jammer.
(g) Everything was recorded by the Netra AWACs. The AWACs is so powerful, it even managed to record pilot names, villagers names, hospital etc.
(h) The Indian pilot that crashed managed to dodge 10000 crazed bloodthirsty villagers that kill anyone in a Pakistani airmen's uniform. It was pure skill the pilot wasn't wearing that.
(i) He then survived 3 days of torture in Pakistani army. Torture included making him dress in a suit, forcing him to make a youtube movie, fly from one city to another and forced him to walk to the border to meet his parents.
(j) The Indians managed to force his release using pressure known as silence and "zoolander" stares.
(k) it has nothing to do with the upcoming elections.

The only thing missing in this Bollywood movie is the song and dance...
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mixelflick

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 15:05

Corsair1963 wrote:
knuckles wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Found this on FB.......


QUOTE:
Wing Co.Abhinandan Varthaman shot down an F-16 flown by Wing Co.Hyder Shahbaz Ali , the CO of PAF's 19th Sqn "Sherdils".This is the pilot mistaken to be a Sikh by the mob at Horran Kotla in PoK and lynched."Shahzaz" was actually "Shahbaz"

link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpg0ULK ... e=youtu.be


He's alive. Currently at Maxwell AFB, was seen at a dinner party about 3 days ago.


This is getting more bizarre by the moment..

And yes, Indian television did report very early on an SU-30MKI was lost. I watched it myself. It has apparently since been removed, and all traces of that "story" are gone. In its place are strong denials by India that they in fact lost one.

I'm absolutely certain of what I saw/heard, because I have a very keen interest in the Flanker and all its variants. This would have been only the 2nd time it's seen combat, putting up a great showing in North Africa vs. Mig-29's. Well, great at least insofar as the final result. Every R-27 launched (I think by both sides) missed, with the final kills coming with R-73's..
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invictus

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 18:38

Corsair1963 wrote:Found this on FB.......


QUOTE:
Wing Co.Abhinandan Varthaman shot down an F-16 flown by Wing Co.Hyder Shahbaz Ali , the CO of PAF's 19th Sqn "Sherdils".This is the pilot mistaken to be a Sikh by the mob at Horran Kotla in PoK and lynched."Shahzaz" was actually "Shahbaz"

link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpg0ULK ... e=youtu.be


Am not the least bothered about which side did what but still to me it would be utterly silly of Pakistan Airforce to use a non-bvr capable version of the F.16 in a high threat environment like Kashmir.
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disconnectedradical

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 19:00

mixelflick wrote:This is getting more bizarre by the moment..

And yes, Indian television did report very early on an SU-30MKI was lost. I watched it myself. It has apparently since been removed, and all traces of that "story" are gone. In its place are strong denials by India that they in fact lost one.

I'm absolutely certain of what I saw/heard, because I have a very keen interest in the Flanker and all its variants. This would have been only the 2nd time it's seen combat, putting up a great showing in North Africa vs. Mig-29's. Well, great at least insofar as the final result. Every R-27 launched (I think by both sides) missed, with the final kills coming with R-73's..


There is as much evidence of Su-30MKI shot down as there is for F-16 shot down, which is none. If you want to believe Indian media on Su-30MKI downing but not F-16 downing? That's selective listening.

Stop trying to push what you wish to be true as fact.
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vilters

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Unread post13 Mar 2019, 23:13

Facts
- One 120 plate with no burn marks and clear serial number
- One Mig 21
- One capture pilot

All the rest is media bla-bla-bla- (including forums)
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invictus

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Unread post14 Mar 2019, 08:20

[quote="vilters"]Facts
- One 120 plate with no burn marks and clear serial number
- One Mig 21
- One capture pilot

All the rest is media bla-bla-bla-

Well said.
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tomcooper

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Unread post14 Mar 2019, 10:08

knuckles wrote:He's alive. Currently at Maxwell AFB, was seen at a dinner party about 3 days ago.
So, half the PAF is in the USA, celebrating parties all the way...?

I believe this post is more politically affiliated.
Free along von Clausewitz's 'War is continuation of politics by other means': sure it is 'politically affiliated' - because what militaries usually do has 'something to do politics', you know.

That is out of my area of interest...
Well, perhaps it's about the time for the Pakistanis like you to conclude it might be of their interest to find out what is their government doing? It might help you be less surprised next time the Indians bomb something 80km+ inside Pakistan.

Overall, sorry: not impressed.

weasel1962 wrote:Well, looking at the some Indian narrative, it can be summarised as follows:

(a) The Indians flattened every single building they bombed (the buildings may have been wooden with long stems and green roofs).
Nobody said 'flattened', and it's well-known that buildings in question are based on massive concrete pillars (thanks to older GE photos).

The most authoritative photo that meanwhile emerged it showing buildings still standing where they are: one can see traces of fire around windows, though.

(b) The IAF bombed because they had info that every monkey terrorists that even intended to target India was in those buildings. It is possible they even bombed the surrounding trees just in case the monkeys climbed them.
The CIA, USAF, USN etc. are UAV-ing groups of 1-4 terrorists all over the world since 20 years. Shall I post you a few links about all the 'successes' from places like Waziristan (Pakistan), Yemen etc.? In north-western Idlib, in Syria, two years ago, a CIA-operated UCAV blasted a mosque stuffed full of 200+ sleeping civilians. I'll not even go into what was the US air power doing around north-eastern Syria - see Raqqa and similar places - the last two years; it's so despicable even French military officers began complaining. But, you're complaining that few of Indian bombs - apparently - missed and hit trees?

(c) The IAF fought the entire Pakisani air force comprising F-16s, Mirages and more F-16 (JF017s)s thereafter
(d) The IAF fought with just one mig-21. The Sukhois were too far away and not required.
(e) They managed to shoot down half the PAF, noting several pilot names, parachutes and even sight the pilot's fathers.
When did official Delhi said anything of that?

Ah, you're another troll. OK, no problem.
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!
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botsing

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Unread post14 Mar 2019, 12:10

tomcooper wrote:
(c) The IAF fought the entire Pakisani air force comprising F-16s, Mirages and more F-16 (JF017s)s thereafter
(d) The IAF fought with just one mig-21. The Sukhois were too far away and not required.
(e) They managed to shoot down half the PAF, noting several pilot names, parachutes and even sight the pilot's fathers.
When did official Delhi said anything of that?

Ah, you're another troll. OK, no problem.

As far as I read it, that whole post of weasel1962 was pure sarcasm due to all the trolling in this thread.
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madrat

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Unread post14 Mar 2019, 12:17

Tom-

Drink some coffee and enjoy a piece of fruit. Your sarcasm meter needs recharged.
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mixelflick

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Unread post14 Mar 2019, 13:54

disconnectedradical wrote:
mixelflick wrote:This is getting more bizarre by the moment..

And yes, Indian television did report very early on an SU-30MKI was lost. I watched it myself. It has apparently since been removed, and all traces of that "story" are gone. In its place are strong denials by India that they in fact lost one.

I'm absolutely certain of what I saw/heard, because I have a very keen interest in the Flanker and all its variants. This would have been only the 2nd time it's seen combat, putting up a great showing in North Africa vs. Mig-29's. Well, great at least insofar as the final result. Every R-27 launched (I think by both sides) missed, with the final kills coming with R-73's..


There is as much evidence of Su-30MKI shot down as there is for F-16 shot down, which is none. If you want to believe Indian media on Su-30MKI downing but not F-16 downing? That's selective listening.

Stop trying to push what you wish to be true as fact.


OK, tell you what...

I'll agree no SU-30MKI shootdown until its proven. Same with F-16.

Someone is lying, although I suppose it's possible both are fiction. In which case, India still comes out on the losing end of known, downed combat aircraft (Mig-21) and its pilot. If it never comes out as to what's true, the best indicator might be India opting/not opting for the F-16IM/F-21.

For the record, I think they will and the F-21 will go on to have a distinguished career in Indian service. The fact they're going to let India build it/technology transfer will be what seals it. Getting their hands on an incredibly advanced engine will be too much to pass up, as engines are the bane of their SU-30MKI's existence. I'm not saying they'll stick it in their SU-30MKI's, but maybe Tejas? Might be too big for that airframe though..

Going to be hell on earth if F-21's battle PAK F-16's. Likelihood of fratricide is going to be at its apex...
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