J model crash in Afganistan

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wbh

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Unread post18 Apr 2016, 03:33

In every "before takeoff checklist " there is a line item which sate "Flight Controls " - "Checked" ....Pilot
When I went through C-130 Checkout back in 1963 this item meant for the Pilot to operate the controls Stop to Stop for Rudder , aileron & elevator. When in later years when I was an instructor pilot I insisted that this particular check be done just in that manner. this is the second accident involving something blocking the pitch control , the first was a Commercial L-382. Both of these accidents were preventable by following the check list. To those who read the accident report ,please follow the check list.
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Jon

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Unread post18 Apr 2016, 04:06

Thanks for posting this, in fact the core of why you pre-flight checks comes from a B-17 crew not doing this. I'm surprised this is being neglected.
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wbh

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Unread post18 Apr 2016, 21:28

There are other clues that something was amiss , when taxiing the yoke is all the way forward not neutral or full aft. To operate either the radio or the interphone one of the pilots should have noticed the unusual position of the yoke.When flying or operating the C-130 on the ground there are certain sights , sounds ,motions etc that are normal and anything out of that ordinary pattern should be an immediate cause for concern . If not sure everything is normal ,speak up, sound off it is your duty as a member of the crew. Conversely it is the duty of the Plane Commander to listen to these comments and not belittle the person who spoke up if there is no danger. The phrases "Good Call ", "thanks for the pick-up " followed by an explanation or corrective action, goes a long way toward promoting safety.
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edpop

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Unread post19 Apr 2016, 22:39

Here is the reason for the crash: Goggles case!

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/19/polit ... index.html
Vietnam veteran (Combat Engineer) 1967
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Jon

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Unread post20 Apr 2016, 13:52

edpop wrote:Here is the reason for the crash: Goggles case!

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/19/polit ... index.html


Yeah, saw that on the news last night, that was a surprise. How does that happen? - Article states: "While the plane was on the ground loading and offloading cargo, the pilot placed the goggles case in front of the cockpit yoke"

Just like in a car if a water bottle (or something like it) rolls behind the brake pedal. So simple, but such serious consequences.
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skipife

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Unread post21 Apr 2016, 21:45

So, I was briefed on this a while back and I am still scratching my head, first of all why is there a need to keep the elevator held up during an on/offload operation??? Next question, did the powers that be take the flight control check out of the checklist...or did they just not run the checklist???
This is a sad thing to be discussing something that should never have happened!
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ruderamronbo

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Unread post23 Apr 2016, 03:18

skipife wrote:So, I was briefed on this a while back and I am still scratching my head, first of all why is there a need to keep the elevator held up during an on/offload operation??? Next question, did the powers that be take the flight control check out of the checklist...or did they just not run the checklist???
This is a sad thing to be discussing something that should never have happened!


The answer is in the report. The cargo being loaded was tall and raising the elevator increases the clearance.
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skipife

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Unread post25 Apr 2016, 20:58

ruderamronbo wrote:
skipife wrote:So, I was briefed on this a while back and I am still scratching my head, first of all why is there a need to keep the elevator held up during an on/offload operation??? Next question, did the powers that be take the flight control check out of the checklist...or did they just not run the checklist???
This is a sad thing to be discussing something that should never have happened!


The answer is in the report. The cargo being loaded was tall and raising the elevator increases the clearance.


I know, I saw that too, but unless the tail is sitting pretty low, or the parking ramp is uneven, there should not be a need to raise the elevator as it is at about the same height as the cargo door when its open.
What ever the reason, arm chair quarterbacking/hindsight won't change what happened, I hope the young/new C-130 operators have learned a lesson here so that it won't happen again, those guys paid the ultimate price for their mistake.
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ruderamronbo

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Unread post26 Apr 2016, 17:04

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skipife

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Unread post27 Apr 2016, 03:33

ruderamronbo wrote:This didn't surprise me. <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2016/04/24/c-130j-accident-report-propping-up-yoke-unload-cargo-not-uncommon-expert-says/83244962</span>/


I knew Kelly back in the day, we were at CCK and Dyess during some of our Herc time, I kinda thought he would have had more flight time then stated in the article. He pointed out some interesting things in the press release like the wheel chock, (they are heavy and unwieldy) I never did see or hear of that before, I have heard of the maintainers using a strap wrapped around one of the pilots seats to hold the elevator up during a maintenance function in the past.
Has anyone found out what it was that they were loading???
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