Mid-air explosion - What exactly happens here ?

Military aircraft accidents/mishaps.
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seat_dreamer

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Unread post12 Aug 2006, 17:21

Hello guys, just saw this video and I'm wondering, what the hell happened to that Tomcat ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDd6uXiNFgs
"144-0 kill ratio.....Ok 144-1 but that's 1 compared to your entire airforce."
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pafpilot

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Unread post12 Aug 2006, 18:38

A rough guess ... engine exploded.
Just a civi here guys so please correct me if i am wrong.
A MiG at you SIX, is better than no MiG at all!!
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HazF16

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Unread post12 Aug 2006, 19:44

pafpilot wrote:A rough guess ... engine exploded.
Just a civi here guys so please correct me if i am wrong.


yup.. engine goes boom. i've seen that video a couple of times already
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shadowhawk27

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Unread post12 Aug 2006, 19:45

The accident investigation report for this was declassified in 2004-5, I'll see if I find a link to it somewhere...

From memory, and in short, it was pilot error. This was an overflight of the Lincoln CBG in 1995 - the viewing vessel is a Burke class DDG (the John Paul Jones I think...) - the F14 was an A model with it's associated engine issues and the plane begins a hard banking turn just before the explosion leading to compressor failure (I'm not an engine bod but I think that was the exact reason given). Both crew banged out ok on this occasion but I believe this was the pilot who pranged another Black Lions F14 the next year, killing himself and his RIO. :roll:
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pafpilot

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Unread post12 Aug 2006, 20:14

the F14 was an A model with it's associated engine issues

:shrug: Explanation please.
A MiG at you SIX, is better than no MiG at all!!
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HazF16

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Unread post12 Aug 2006, 23:02

pafpilot wrote:
the F14 was an A model with it's associated engine issues

:shrug: Explanation please.


the A model was notorious for having engine failures, compressor stalls and all kinds of stuff
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shiz302

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Unread post12 Aug 2006, 23:07

Read sig :D
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TC

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Unread post13 Aug 2006, 02:34

PAF, the F-14As had Pratt and Shitney, er, Whitney TF-30s. They were underpowered...real pigs of engines, and were never really suited for Tomcat ops. Enter the F-14B (and later the D), and its GE F110s, and it gave the Tomcat some much needed muscle.

BTW, Shiz has a perfect sig, when it's applied to the A model Tomcats! :wink:

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!
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sferrin

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Unread post13 Aug 2006, 03:55

TC wrote:PAF, the F-14As had Pratt and Shitney, er, Whitney TF-30s. They were underpowered...real pigs of engines, and were never really suited for Tomcat ops. Enter the F-14B (and later the D), and its GE F110s, and it gave the Tomcat some much needed muscle.

BTW, Shiz has a perfect sig, when it's applied to the A model Tomcats! :wink:

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!


So when the Navy puts an inappropriate engine on an aircraft how is it the engine's fault? The TF30 was never designed for the envelope the Tomcat was capable of. It would be like sticking J58s on a C-5 and saying they're lousy engines because the C-5 doesn't have good range with them.
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sferrin

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Unread post13 Aug 2006, 03:58

shiz302 wrote:Read sig :D



Thunderchief, Dart, Raptor, and Blackbird pilots would probably disagree.
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TC

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Unread post13 Aug 2006, 05:26

sferrin wrote:Thunderchief, Dart, Raptor, and Blackbird pilots would probably disagree.


Eagle and some Viper pilots too...

But anyway, here's what I meant by my last post: the TF-30 was designed for the F-111. It was not designed to do the F-14's mission. Thus, in the Tomcat, it was underpowered, and prone to failures. The F110s came along, and were a vast improvement. Not really knocking the engine. It did well in the 'Vark, but the 111 wasn't designed to dogfight either.

To Err is Human. To Forgive is NOT ACC Policy.
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sferrin

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Unread post13 Aug 2006, 10:17

TC wrote:
sferrin wrote:Thunderchief, Dart, Raptor, and Blackbird pilots would probably disagree.


Eagle and some Viper pilots too...

But anyway, here's what I meant by my last post: the TF-30 was designed for the F-111. It was not designed to do the F-14's mission. Thus, in the Tomcat, it was underpowered, and prone to failures. The F110s came along, and were a vast improvement. Not really knocking the engine. It did well in the 'Vark, but the 111 wasn't designed to dogfight either.

To Err is Human. To Forgive is NOT ACC Policy.


Sad thing is it was only ever suppose to be an interim engine. Kinda like if they'd put F100s in the first few Raptors and then decided to keep them. :(
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Meathook

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Unread post13 Aug 2006, 15:55

I would say an engine "shell out", internal fractures, possible turbine wheel spinning apart cause the engine to fragment (come apart and at those speeds...boom) thus causing the follow on explosion (fuel lines etc going up). Damn shame, I did not read it closely enough but did the crew get out I hope?
More than likely have "been there and done that at some point", it sure keeps you young if done correctly
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shiz302

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Unread post13 Aug 2006, 17:14

I think I actually got the quote from TC, it applies to the Turkey only.
Here's a vid showing what the GE motor can do!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kLPZt80IXhE
Ex 16 CC workin 'hawks.
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TC

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Unread post13 Aug 2006, 18:18

Heh heh! Not me dude. If you got the quote from me, it would've said "If it says Pratt & Whitney on the engine, it better say ACES II on the ejection seat!" :wink:

BTW, they did get out Meathook. If I'm not mistaken, at about the last good glimpse you get of the fireball, it looks like a chutes below it. Even if that was just my eyes playing tricks on me, I do know that they punched out and were rescued. Good deal.

To Err is Human. To Forgive is NOT ACC Policy.
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