J-10B Crash attributed to engine failure

Military aircraft accidents/mishaps.
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popcorn

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Unread post31 Mar 2015, 06:45

"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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KamenRiderBlade

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Unread post31 Mar 2015, 18:11

popcorn wrote:http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20141119000007&cid=1101


I'm sure our regular "Russia Strong" crew will have something to say about China blaming Russia for the crash based on Russian engine failure.
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mrigdon

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Unread post31 Mar 2015, 21:22

KamenRiderBlade wrote:I'm sure our regular "Russia Strong" crew will have something to say about China blaming Russia for the crash based on Russian engine failure.


Ew! Ew! I wanna try!

This occurs due to production of poor Chinese engine. This why they must to buy Russian engines .

http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/chi ... ngine.html

I'm angling for one of those Russian troll jobs. I hear the Russian military just freed up a bunch of funds :drool:
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KamenRiderBlade

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Unread post31 Mar 2015, 23:07

mrigdon wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:I'm sure our regular "Russia Strong" crew will have something to say about China blaming Russia for the crash based on Russian engine failure.


Ew! Ew! I wanna try!

This occurs due to production of poor Chinese engine. This why they must to buy Russian engines .

http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/chi ... ngine.html

I'm angling for one of those Russian troll jobs. I hear the Russian military just freed up a bunch of funds :drool:


But it was a Russian made engine that caused the J-10B to crash, the fault is with Russia, not with our glorious Chinese maintainers, or designers of our aircraft.
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mrigdon

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Unread post31 Mar 2015, 23:16

KamenRiderBlade wrote:
But it was a Russian made engine that caused the J-10B to crash, the fault is with Russia, not with our glorious Chinese maintainers, or designers of our aircraft.


Chinese make Russian engines under license. It is widely known that the engines have a low quality. How do we know that this is Russian built engine? Just because a Western source says?

Китайские двигатели могут быть плохого производстве и китайцы работают dilligently закупать больше российского производства двигателей для своих перспективных проектах истребителей

How am I doing? I think I have a good chance at stealing sergei's job
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popcorn

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Unread post01 Apr 2015, 00:07

According to this article the Chinese can make most parts except the turbine blades which they get from the Russians. The West still enjoys a big tech lead, with Russia a distant second and China closing the gap on the latter.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2012 ... _news_blog
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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mrigdon

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Unread post01 Apr 2015, 00:51

popcorn wrote:According to this article the Chinese can make most parts except the turbine blades which they get from the Russians. The West still enjoys a big tech lead, with Russia a distant second and China closing the gap on the latter.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2012 ... _news_blog


That was from two years ago. More recent stories have the Chinese still being forced to buy engines from Russia to put in the J-20 and J-31. A photographer on another site was at the airshow where the J-31 flew and recognized the sound and smoke trails in that jet as being the same as the Mig-29 (he photographs a lot of Russian planes). In fact, I don't think the Chinese hide the fact that they put Russian engines in the J-31.

A lot of the argument over the recent contract between China and Russia for Su-35s is supposed to be over engines. The Russians are trying to get the Chinese to buy whole airframes, not just engines, as they suspect the Chinese really just want the engines for the various prototypes they're working on.

That's not to say that the Chinese aren't developing an indigenous engine industry, but they're still far away from matching the quality of Indian, Russian, or American engines.
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Unread post01 Apr 2015, 09:06

mrigdon wrote:
popcorn wrote:According to this article the Chinese can make most parts except the turbine blades which they get from the Russians. The West still enjoys a big tech lead, with Russia a distant second and China closing the gap on the latter.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2012 ... _news_blog


That was from two years ago. More recent stories have the Chinese still being forced to buy engines from Russia to put in the J-20 and J-31. A photographer on another site was at the airshow where the J-31 flew and recognized the sound and smoke trails in that jet as being the same as the Mig-29 (he photographs a lot of Russian planes). In fact, I don't think the Chinese hide the fact that they put Russian engines in the J-31.

A lot of the argument over the recent contract between China and Russia for Su-35s is supposed to be over engines. The Russians are trying to get the Chinese to buy whole airframes, not just engines, as they suspect the Chinese really just want the engines for the various prototypes they're working on.

That's not to say that the Chinese aren't developing an indigenous engine industry, but they're still far away from matching the quality of Indian, Russian, or American engines.


China is far from matching the US in Engines. (Military Turbofans) Yet, China is closing in on Russia quickly. Yet, both have so ways to go to match most Western Types.
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Unread post01 Apr 2015, 10:29

Corsair1963 wrote:
mrigdon wrote:That's not to say that the Chinese aren't developing an indigenous engine industry, but they're still far away from matching the quality of Indian, Russian, or American engines.


China is far from matching the US in Engines. (Military Turbofans) Yet, China is closing in on Russia quickly. Yet, both have so ways to go to match most Western Types.


I chose my words carefully :wink:

At best, the Chinese are approaching India. India has shown that they can reproduce advanced Russian-designed engines and field them reliably (the AL-31 for instance). China may be close to that with some lesser designs, but they still have to have Russia build the more advanced engines for them. If they could build AL-31 engines themselves, they wouldn't be negotiating for Su-35s now.

Obviously, neither Russia, China, or India can approach the level of design and manufacturing excellence of the American military turbofan industry, although I'm sure that sergei will disagree vehemently with this statement.
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Unread post01 Apr 2015, 17:24

mrigdon wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
mrigdon wrote:That's not to say that the Chinese aren't developing an indigenous engine industry, but they're still far away from matching the quality of Indian, Russian, or American engines.


China is far from matching the US in Engines. (Military Turbofans) Yet, China is closing in on Russia quickly. Yet, both have so ways to go to match most Western Types.


I chose my words carefully :wink:

At best, the Chinese are approaching India. India has shown that they can reproduce advanced Russian-designed engines and field them reliably (the AL-31 for instance). China may be close to that with some lesser designs, but they still have to have Russia build the more advanced engines for them. If they could build AL-31 engines themselves, they wouldn't be negotiating for Su-35s now.

Obviously, neither Russia, China, or India can approach the level of design and manufacturing excellence of the American military turbofan industry, although I'm sure that sergei will disagree vehemently with this statement.


The question is, why hasn't Russia tried to sabotage China / India's engine industry. If those two don't need Russia anymore, engine sales will go down, that's bad for business.
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Unread post01 Apr 2015, 21:26

KamenRiderBlade wrote:The question is, why hasn't Russia tried to sabotage China / India's engine industry. If those two don't need Russia anymore, engine sales will go down, that's bad for business.


India pays license fees for the engines they build; they're good business partners. One day, they may be able to jettison the Russians as a partner, but that's a ways off. As long as they fly Sukhois and Migs, they'll be paying money to the Russians for the engines, even if it's just license fees. Saturn cashes the checks and doesn't have to do any of the work. Sweet deal.

The Chinese tend to buy stuff and reverse engineer it, stealing intellectual property. The Russians have been pretty upset about it over the years. This seems to be the reason that Russia is insisting that China buy so many Su-35s. They know the Chinese just want the engines and they won't pay the license fees, so they're trying to figure out a different way to get that money out of the Chinese government.

The Russians might want to sabotage the Chinese, but it doesn't seem very realistic. The Russians need the Chinese for economic and political reasons. Outright sabotage could put that relationship at risk. The Chinese know this, it's why they don't really seem to care about stealing from the Russians. What can the Russians do? The Chinese are a big customer, you still have to sell them planes to keep up your exports. You want their support in the security council. And you need them to build an alliance against the U.S. in the Pacific.

In a more general sense, sabotaging partners would be bad for business all around. Who would be willing to go into business with the Russians if you knew they were taking advantage of the relationship to sabotage your domestic industries?

Besides, the Chinese seem to have enough problems with engines that sabotage seems like a waste of resources. The Chinese are still decades(?) away from matching the Russian's ability to produce the highest level of military turbofan.
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Unread post02 Apr 2015, 17:16

China can't produce a modern military jet engine so it buys Russian? China blames Russian engines so it wants to produce its own? huh :roll:
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