Su-24/Mig-27 in the 1970s /80s and escort fighters

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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nastle

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Unread post19 Apr 2020, 17:58

madrat wrote:The Soviets had scabbed electronic equipment on every airframe imaginable, including MiG-25s. They customized them and this had to be an expensive way to do it.

I did notice that
Not only expensive I dont understand how these slow vulnerable platforms were supposed to act as stsnd off jammers
Mig25RB ECM was all geared towards self defence?
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hornetfinn

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Unread post20 Apr 2020, 09:46

Very interesting stuff here, especially from Meteor and outlaw162. Thank you very much for your views about how things were during those days.

I can see how F-111, Tornado IDS and Su-24 would've operated during those days. Mostly go very low, very fast and try to avoid everything that could shoot you down. That would probably work but naturally losses would be high as Desert Storm opening days showed even against enemy without the most modern equipment and being seriously outnumbered in the air. Especially so, because those aircraft would be attacking the very heavily defended targets like airfields and naval ports.

However I think it would've been very difficult for other attack aircraft to operate successfully. Most other attack aircraft didn't have the capability to fly fast and low except in daylight and even then not that long. There were aircraft like F-104G, SEPECAT Jaguar, several Mirages, Su-7, Su-17 and MiG-27 which didn't have TF radar or imaging FLIR. So I think they'd be forced to use medium altitudes at night or do daylight attacks. Neither sounds very good to me but naturally there was not much choice then.
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madrat

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Unread post20 Apr 2020, 13:24

nastle wrote:
madrat wrote:The Soviets had scabbed electronic equipment on every airframe imaginable, including MiG-25s. They customized them and this had to be an expensive way to do it.

I did notice that
Not only expensive I dont understand how these slow vulnerable platforms were supposed to act as stsnd off jammers
Mig25RB ECM was all geared towards self defence?

During the Iran-Iraq conflict the MiG-25's were mostly equipped with RWR, but I'm not so sure about actual ECM/ECCM equipment. I'm pretty sure the only MiG-25's equipped with jamming were dedicated to the mission.
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mixelflick

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Unread post21 Apr 2020, 13:33

If that's true (Iraqi Mig-25's flew with just RWR), they really put up an admirable showing.

Ditto for Gulf War I, where they out-ran USAF Eagles (and some say their Sparrow missiles) on at least one occassion. A proper Mig-25PD with fully functioning RWR, ECM/ECCM and R-60's/AA-8's would have been a tough customer indeed. That 3rd generation fighter bagged a 4th gen F/A-18C, and gave fits to American F-14's and 15's. True, at least 2 were lost to F-15's the first night of the war, but things very easily could have gone the other way.

I shudder to think how things may have turned out had the Iraqi's been flying Mig-31's. Things may have been very different indeed...
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nastle

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Unread post21 Apr 2020, 13:54

madrat wrote:
nastle wrote:
madrat wrote:The Soviets had scabbed electronic equipment on every airframe imaginable, including MiG-25s. They customized them and this had to be an expensive way to do it.

I did notice that
Not only expensive I dont understand how these slow vulnerable platforms were supposed to act as stsnd off jammers
Mig25RB ECM was all geared towards self defence?

During the Iran-Iraq conflict the MiG-25's were mostly equipped with RWR, but I'm not so sure about actual ECM/ECCM equipment. I'm pretty sure the only MiG-25's equipped with jamming were dedicated to the mission.

Yes I meant to ask if the R and RB carried any onboard jammers to help strike aircraft
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basher54321

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Unread post21 Apr 2020, 15:52

The MiG-25BM might be the closest to what you are after - or you might have to wait for an update to Yefim.
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nastle

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Unread post21 Apr 2020, 19:16

basher54321 wrote:The MiG-25BM might be the closest to what you are after - or you might have to wait for an update to Yefim.

the links you shared earlier were very helpful thanks

yes BM probably but they were so few i think only 55 were built, and same purpose can be achieved by the strike fighters themselves carrying anti-radition missiles like AS-9/AS-12/AS-11
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basher54321

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Unread post21 Apr 2020, 19:50

The BM might have had a bit more on the electronic attack front than typical tactical jets with ARMs. The only dedicated ECM Stand off MiG-25 was a one off test project.
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nastle

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Unread post05 Jun 2020, 17:31

could the soviet strikers like su-24/mig-27 improve their survivability by operating mostly at night ? Seems like they had some night attack capability [based on reposnses in my other thread]
How good was the ability of 1980s F-4/Mirage F1 /F-16 A/C to conduct interception at night ?
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