F-15C vs. Mig-23/25 book

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 01 Jan 2020, 16:48

Just got done reading Tom Cooper's excellent book here - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/14728 ... UTF8&psc=1

I really enjoyed this one, which comes on the heels of Iranian F-14 Tomcats in Action (another of Tom's books). Some very good info here on the Mig-23's development I wasn't aware of, and of course the Mig-25. There is some conflicting info betwen the two books, but it largely is attributed to Iraqi vs. Iranian claims. For example, Iraq claims to have lost only 2 Mig-25's in the Iran - Iraq war, one to an F-5E's sidewinders and the other to an Iranian Phantom, which used an AIM-7E. The Iranian Tomcat book though cited Iranian sources as killing multiple Mig-25's with the Phoenix, which I tend more to believe.

The actual Mig-23/25 vs. F-15C combat is riveting, and not solely confined to these two. There's a very interesting account of the Scott Speicher shootdown, and Mig-29's/Mirage F-1's being in the mix as well. One thing that struck me was the close quarters combat in most cases. It's true most bandits were detected BVR, but the miles close fast and VID'ing was necessary in some cases. The way we talk about the F-22/35 is quite different, as the ranges it can detect/destroy enemies from are far greater. Time will tell if that's actually the case...

BOTTOM LINE: Great book, read it all in one sitting! Highly recommended...

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 01 Jan 2020, 16:59

Along with this book came an absolute monstrosity: Sukhoi Su-27 & 30/33/34/35: Famous Russian Aircraft Hardcover – December 15, 2018 by Yefim Gordon (Author), Dmitriy Komissarov (Author).

At around 720 pages, you can't even imagine how comprehensive it is. Just reading about it doesn't do it justice, it must weigh 20lbs lol. The amount of technical data is staggering, and there must be well over 1,000 photographs - most of them in crisp Flanker colors. The sheer number of Flanker derivatives is dizzying, but they're all right there up to and including the latest SU-35. Want more? It also covers the Chinese spin offs including the J-11, J-15/16 etc..

The part I enjoyed the most was how they refined the orignal T-10 until they had a world beater. You simply can't read about what the Russians went through to get the airframe where it is today, without being highly impressed and inspired by them. For a mere $40, it's an absolute must on your bookshelf..

charlielima223 · by **charlielima223** » 30 Jan 2020, 02:26

I read a book a 3 years back about the USAF's adversary training squadron, "The Red Eagles" officially designated the 4477th TES. It was a really great read how it all started from Have Doughnut to Constant PEG. In it they mention their Mig-23s. Surprisingly fast in a straight line (could out run Eagles and Tomcats) but once you put some turns on it, it mighy as well be a pickup truck. They also had to be careful with how fast they rolled the aircraft as well.

garrya · by **garrya** » 30 Jan 2020, 04:41

Is this site https://kissly.net/book/7E5DFD8B0D0F063 ... om&x=89951 reliable to purchase these book?

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 30 Jan 2020, 15:48

garrya wrote:Is this site https://kissly.net/book/7E5DFD8B0D0F063 ... om&x=89951 reliable to purchase these book?

444

Not sure, I got mine off Amazon...

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 04 Feb 2020, 13:49

One (unbelievable) anecdote from that SU-27/Flanker book: They took the canopy off one of their test birds, and flew it at Mach 2! This was no joke, or at least was presented as a legit claim. I dunno about it hitting mach 2, but there were pictures of it.

Crazy!!!

edpop · by **edpop** » 10 Feb 2020, 23:02

mixelflick wrote:Along with this book came an absolute monstrosity: Sukhoi Su-27 & 30/33/34/35: Famous Russian Aircraft Hardcover – December 15, 2018 by Yefim Gordon (Author), Dmitriy Komissarov (Author).

At around 720 pages, you can't even imagine how comprehensive it is. Just reading about it doesn't do it justice, it must weigh 20lbs lol. The amount of technical data is staggering, and there must be well over 1,000 photographs - most of them in crisp Flanker colors. The sheer number of Flanker derivatives is dizzying, but they're all right there up to and including the latest SU-35. Want more? It also covers the Chinese spin offs including the J-11, J-15/16 etc..

The part I enjoyed the most was how they refined the orignal T-10 until they had a world beater. You simply can't read about what the Russians went through to get the airframe where it is today, without being highly impressed and inspired by them. For a mere $40, it's an absolute must on your bookshelf..

I got my copy of the Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/34/35 Famous Russian Aircraft book today in the mail from Amazon ($29.63 with tax and S/H). It said it is used but it looks brand new to me. Like you said it is a monstrosity but very cool. Everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask about the Sukhoi family. Should be a good read for the rest of the winter.

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 11 Feb 2020, 13:12

That's a great price, especially if its in good condition!

Yes, absurd amount of info/detail in its 700+ pages. See if you can find the pics/mention of it doing mach 2 without a canopy, I'd be interested in your take.

Personally, I don't see how its possible. That has to create beacoup drag, not to mention being absolute hell on a pilot. Never, ever heard of such a thing before. I understand the need to test, but jeeez... Can you imagine being given that assignment? Probably took a LOT of vodka/liquid courage before making that hop, LOL.

nastle · by **nastle** » 09 May 2020, 03:24

mixelflick wrote:Just got done reading Tom Cooper's excellent book here - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/14728 ... UTF8&psc=1

Iraq claims to have lost only 2 Mig-25's in the Iran - Iraq war, one to an F-5E's sidewinders and the other to an Iranian Phantom, which used an AIM-7E. ...

can you give a source for the f4 killing a mig-25?

I read coopers book on iranian f-4s and they list no mig-25 lost to F-4s

thank a lot

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 09 May 2020, 14:31

nastle wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Just got done reading Tom Cooper's excellent book here - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/14728 ... UTF8&psc=1

Iraq claims to have lost only 2 Mig-25's in the Iran - Iraq war, one to an F-5E's sidewinders and the other to an Iranian Phantom, which used an AIM-7E. ...

can you give a source for the f4 killing a mig-25?

I read coopers book on iranian f-4s and they list no mig-25 lost to F-4s

thank a lot

I'll have to go back and look, it's been awhile.

It's mentioned here at the top of the page, so he too saw something about a (recon) Foxbat being brought down by an F-4..
https://www.key.aero/forum/modern-milit ... n-iraq-war

I'm certain I read about it (somewhere), as I was under the impression no F-4 could catch a Mig-25. So I read it, re-read it and couldn't believe it, LOL. Then again, pilots make mistakes.. or their aircraft fail them. Stuff happens, as they say.

I'll keep looking..

basher54321 · by **basher54321** » 09 May 2020, 14:55

edpop wrote:I got my copy of the Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/34/35 Famous Russian Aircraft book today in the mail from Amazon ($29.63 with tax and S/H). It said it is used but it looks brand new to me. Like you said it is a monstrosity but very cool. Everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask about the Sukhoi family. Should be a good read for the rest of the winter.

Check out page 86 to see what the new benchmark for the T-10S redesign was.

madrat · by **madrat** » 09 May 2020, 15:31

edpop wrote:
I got my copy of the Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/34/35 Famous Russian Aircraft book today in the mail from Amazon ($29.63 with tax and S/H). It said it is used but it looks brand new to me. Like you said it is a monstrosity but very cool. Everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask about the Sukhoi family. Should be a good read for the rest of the winter.

You inspired me to order a copy. I found mine $32.64 after tax and shipping, but I'm happy! What a steal.

nikolaos · by **nikolaos** » 09 May 2020, 17:42

mixelflick wrote:
nastle wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Just got done reading Tom Cooper's excellent book here - <a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1472812700/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1" class="skimlinks-unlinked" data-skimwords-word="https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2F1472812700%2Fref%3Dppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00%3Fie%3DUTF8%26psc%3D1" data-skim-creative="500005" title="" style="">https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1472812700/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1</a>

Iraq claims to have lost only 2 Mig-25's in the Iran - Iraq war, one to an F-5E's sidewinders and the other to an Iranian Phantom, which used an AIM-7E. ...

can you give a source for the f4 killing a mig-25?

I read coopers book on iranian f-4s and they list no mig-25 lost to F-4s

thank a lot

I believe that the source of this claim is a post of Babak Taghvaee in ACIG forum, where he mentioned that on 21/03/1988 a Iranian F-4E launched a Sparrow missile against a Mig-25 returning from a bombing mission inside Iran, the missile hit the Iraqi Jet which subsequently crashed inside Iraq, I don't know if Cooper was later able to confirm this claim or not.

nastle · by **nastle** » 09 May 2020, 19:27

nikolaos wrote:
mixelflick wrote:

I believe that the source of this claim is a post of Babak Taghvaee in ACIG forum, where he mentioned that on 21/03/1988 a Iranian F-4E launched a Sparrow missile against a Mig-25 returning from a bombing mission inside Iran, the missile hit the Iraqi Jet which subsequently crashed inside Iraq, I don't know if Cooper was later able to confirm this claim or not.

even if accept this a bombing mission implies it was RB and not a P/PD/PDS
AFAIK not even a israeli phantom has downed a mig-25p/pd/pds

nastle · by **nastle** » 09 May 2020, 19:28

madrat wrote:
edpop wrote:
I got my copy of the Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/34/35 Famous Russian Aircraft book today in the mail from Amazon ($29.63 with tax and S/H). It said it is used but it looks brand new to me. Like you said it is a monstrosity but very cool. Everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask about the Sukhoi family. Should be a good read for the rest of the winter.

You inspired me to order a copy. I found mine $32.64 after tax and shipping, but I'm happy! What a steal.

scrbid has online copies of many such books
i got mine yrs back but resold it