"Iraqi Mirages in Combat" book

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
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milosh

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Unread post23 Mar 2019, 19:32

mixelflick wrote:But that's not what's happening..

Egypt is buying the SU-35, so is China. Malaysia, Vietnam and Venezuala all bought Flankers too. So far the only entity with a firm buy is Russia, and its a token quantity at that. Mig really needs to do a lot better than up-rated Fulcrums, but I fail to see anything materializing. At this point, they need a real hail mary design, something to get them at least back in the same ballpark as Sukhoi. I realize they're both state owned, but Mig as a design bureau has to have some pride.

I would hope, anyway..


First problem is engine. Flanker got couple variants of AL-31 and it got AL-41 (only 20% of engine is based on AL-31) in last two decades while MiG-29/35 got two variants of RD-33. Flankers will get next gen engine in 2020s, for MiG-35 next engine isn't mentioned at all.

Second problem is price. You have many new Flankers build after cold war ended while less then 100 new MiG-29/35. So even though Flanker is bigger bird price difference isn't big and spare parts are cheaper for Flanker.
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azharkamalhussein

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Unread post16 May 2019, 17:40

Dear friend, if you need any sources (diaries, photos and even personal collectibles of an F1 fighter) I can help you, as I have in my possession A LOT of materials and belongings especially diaries of my father ( F1 and super etendard until 1984).
He flew the Mirage first at the beginning of the Iraqi Iranian war until 1983 he went to France and there he trained on the super etendard.

I am still in contact with his former super etendard pilot and can get you in touch with him.
Just for the sake of validity no more:)

With regards
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nastle

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Unread post02 Jun 2020, 01:49

milos984 wrote:I dont thing that I wrote it wrongly, maybe too short. But I must stress that the problem of MiG-29 was that it was designed and fine tuned to operate as a part of Soviet Military Machine - where individual parts are supporting each other. In Iraq it operate around KARI Integrated ADS - so until here, everithyng is OK.
But KARI was enough against occasional IRIAF raids here and there or agains something like repeat of IDF/AF operation Opera anti-Reactor raid. But it was certainly not made to withstand such "truckload of brick´s" that Coalition throw on it since from the "night 1".

mixelflick wrote:I have to disagree with the latter statement. The Mig-29 was tailor made to point airfield defense, and that is precisely the role it (should have) played in Desert Storm.
the Mig-29 was designed to take off, meet the enemy over a close proximity airfield and fight them off..
I dont say that you are wrong, but the problem is more complex.
As I wrote it above, even when you are doing "point defense" mission close your home airbase, you still need a GCI support to know where is your enemy and how to maneuver to get on enemy´s "sixth hour" and all that before he would be allarmed that you are there.

One small addenda: there was affair in 1986, when a designer of NIIR research center was arrested and later executed for threason by KGB. His name was Adoľf Toľkačev, and he passed a lot of sensitive informations to CIA. Also, some informations about MiG-29 were obtained from Germany and also French air force allowed USN Hornets to train against un-delivered "iraqi" Mirage F.1EQ-6 in late 1990.

mixelflick wrote:With a competent pilot, the Mig-29 is a dangerous opponent. Evaluation of East German Mig-29's confirmed this, as the gave allied fighters fits when the opportunity arose to perform DACT.
Here, in Slovakia our MiG-drivers like to tell (on specialised pages, or personally at various air fest´s) how the MiG-29 is maneuverable airplane and how much they "kick the a$$" of the allied aircrafts during various joint NATO trainings. During mentioned MACE exercize, which take part at Sliač AFB, they were able to "get" RAF Harrier´s (in 2007) or RNlAF F-16A (recently). But they "forget to say" that it happens in 1 vs. 1 dogfights. :D And at the end of the day, they admitt that the radar of their "Fulcrum" is certainly not the best.


I think Mig-29 9.12 is more equivalent of 1980s era Saab Viggen and //or Mirage F1 than F-15 or AMRAAM equipped F-16s

And that too only in the air to air arena , and in the air to ground role it is completely outclassed by any 3rd gen western fighter

personally I feel like cold war era fulcrum/flanker were more like 3+ gen fighters than true 4th gen fighters
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mixelflick

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Unread post02 Jun 2020, 13:48

Perhaps avionics wise, but certainly not in the aerodynamics/airframe deptartment...

Both were highly advanced blended wing/body designs, featuring widely spaced podded engines, a large "tunnel" between them and other airframe innovations that were a world apart from the Mig-21/23/25. In those 2 aircraft, the Soviets (finally) had contemporaries of the F-15/16 that were just as maneuverable (if not moreso, in some parts of the envelope).

The Flanker in particular proved to be such a robust design, that 25 years later advanced versions can still outperform many Western jets. And while still lagging, their avionics and weapons are getting better...
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nastle

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Unread post02 Jun 2020, 14:29

mixelflick wrote:Perhaps avionics wise, but certainly not in the aerodynamics/airframe deptartment...

Both were highly advanced blended wing/body designs, featuring widely spaced podded engines, a large "tunnel" between them and other airframe innovations that were a world apart from the Mig-21/23/25. In those 2 aircraft, the Soviets (finally) had contemporaries of the F-15/16 that were just as maneuverable (if not moreso, in some parts of the envelope).

The Flanker in particular proved to be such a robust design, that 25 years later advanced versions can still outperform many Western jets. And while still lagging, their avionics and weapons are getting better...

perhaps in aerodynamics
but the overall military capability of the mig-29/su-27 in the 1985-1991 period was no more than a 3+ gen fighter

and after introduction of AIM-120 AMRAAM i think all russian manned fighters become obsolete overnight
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