"Iraqi Mirages in Combat" book

Cold war, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm - up to and including for example the A-10, F-15, Mirage 200, MiG-29, and F-18.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

oldiraqiarmyarchive

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: 31 Aug 2018, 16:16

Unread post31 Aug 2018, 16:32

Long-awaited, our book about the Iraqi Mirages is already available (on Amazon) written by Miguel García.
As an effort from the Old Iraqi Army Archive (OIAA) to provide an accurate picture of the events concerning the Mirage F.1EQ story in Iraq, the book is printed in full-color (230 pages), providing a good reference on contracts, Mirage variants, missions, pictures, interviews and anecdotes covering the period 1975-2003. The book is endorsed by IQAF personnel with the collaboration of several key Iraqi Mirage F.1EQ figures at the time.

An overview of the interior pages can be seen here:

https://www.facebook.com/oldiraqiarmyar ... 641270707/

Enjoy your reading!

OIAA
Attachments
portada cover promoR.png
The cover of the book
Offline

wq

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: 31 Aug 2018, 12:32

Unread post31 Aug 2018, 16:41

My first day here and immidiately such a nice find. Looks like a beauty :)
Offline

sprstdlyscottsmn

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4925
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 01:24
  • Location: Nashua NH USA

Unread post31 Aug 2018, 17:43

Nice!
"Spurts"

-Pilot
-Aerospace Engineer
-Army Medic
-FMS Systems Engineer
-PFD Systems Engineer
-PATRIOT Systems Engineer
Offline

nikolaos

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 53
  • Joined: 06 Mar 2015, 07:01

Unread post01 Sep 2018, 20:49

Looks good and with 230 pages should be quite detailed
Offline

wq

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: 31 Aug 2018, 12:32

Unread post02 Sep 2018, 15:52

I ordered! :D should get it next week
Offline

miguelgaditano

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2014, 17:27

Unread post18 Sep 2018, 18:19

Thank you all for the praises and good feedback.

We are releasing a couple of pages from the interior.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17QWyWJ ... cVmeeAIS1/

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y5yEMx ... 6KL52Y4MM/

Good reading to you all!

Mike
Offline

litzj

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 39
  • Joined: 06 Jun 2016, 00:29

Unread post03 Oct 2018, 04:35

It look nice. Still, there is lack of information related to exported French jets.

Is there Kindle edition in Amazon?
Offline
User avatar

oldiraqiarmyarchive

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: 31 Aug 2018, 16:16

Unread post04 Oct 2018, 17:58

Thank you for your interest in the book. The information regarding all Mirage F1EQs delivered to Iraq is listed there. Regarding the ebook edition is not currently available.
Thank you!
OIAA
Offline

milos984

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 14 Sep 2015, 10:39

Unread post18 Mar 2019, 20:18

I must first warned anybody that here I am not non-partisan "innocent bystander", but a co-author of newly published https://www.helion.co.uk/iraqi-mirages- ... -2003.html So I am re-posting what I wrote prewiously.
Unfortunatelly, books about IrAF are badly necessary. So there is even more urgent need to make them in serious manner.
HOWEVER
Just puting together all previously available informations + testimonies of IrAF officers + a lot of photos and artworks -> is nice and fine, but it has it´s flaws too.
Puting togethers available informations need to be done in coherent manner and the way that is explaining "how_and_why" and also operational and strategic connections.
-> what I was reading in this book was like, "I read this somevere" - like in one of Tom Cooper´s articles published in last 10-11 years.
OK, there are also novices there, who just start with IrAF and for them this informations would be a reall amazement. But for me not much is really new.

Testimonies of available IrAF oficers are interesting and need to be recorded. Period.
-> BUT, there is one big BUT that nobody can take their testimonies/memories (and their honor and pride) as granted.

Everything must be taken seriously and scrutinized with help of cross-checking with other available materials ALSO with materials available from IRANIAN/Israel/US side.
Especially results of IrAF aerial assaults on ground tatgets and aircombats. Example can be entrie from 17th January 1991 and Lt. Nafi Abdallah al Juburi with "his" SD of USAF EF-111A. If it is explained as claim, then OK but that need to be marked that way also in Annex. Or not... :?:

Example is shot-down of Maj. Kamal (from 1980) who is say to piloted MiG_21bis, but what kind of source is "al-Iraq" newspaper from july 1984 :?: is publishing some oficial document :?: IrAF internal document :?: or Ir_MoD PR release :?:
I dont say It doesnt happens, but the question of what nature is the source of Maj. Kamal SD confirmation is important here.

As I understand that certain weterans had dificulties to admitt certain thing primarilly to themselves, I am not supprised about the outcome.
"Funny" is that even few remaining offcial Iraqi documents (translated and published by US under the title "Harmonys Collection"), along with documents from... (...from certain "innocent bystanders") operating there and in that time, say it more of less openly that the opponent - IRIAF - was still a danger which they (IrAF pilots) must count with.

To be fair, they (IrAF pilots) do their best and learned a lot during the 1980-88 and hit the enemy hard.

Unfortunatelly, under pressure of their own PR they develop the same unhealty disregard to unpleasant facts as many other pilot of so many other AF´s in the history.

I understand that it is not easy to research about IrAF under current conditions, when many veterans has many more serious issues on work, than to comunicate with some interested westerner.
But still, declaring that book as an
...accurate picture of the events concerning the Mirage F.1EQ story in Iraq, the book is printed in full-color (230 pages)...
...is a bit premature. The reasons are mentioned above.
I dont say that book is not worth of buying or reading.
If because of that book several more people came to similar addiction for IrAF as I, thanks even for that. Maybe some 10-15 years in future they put together something more serious.
OK, I dont say that our book is better - simply it is different!
We dont care about anybody´s "pride and honor" - and if some remaining IrAF veterans have nothing better for work than to declare, how IRIAF "Phantom pilots were frigtened by approaching MiG-23ML" or how some of their Mirages "were shot down by Strela MANPADS" as "we all know" that the "IRIAF F-14´s were unserviceable" sorry we dont buy such fan-boy style.
Attachments
Clipboard04.jpg
Clipboard07.jpg
Clipboard03D.jpg
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4152
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post19 Mar 2019, 12:58

I'd be interested in this..

The Mirage F-1EQ was their most capable fighter, at least IMO. While not state of the art for the time, it did have the best mix of speed, thrust to weight ratio, maneuverability and radar/air to air weapons. Wiki states they claimed at least 35 Iranian aircraft, mostly F-4s and Northrop F-5s, but also several F-14 Tomcats. The latter had to be a huge feather in their caps, as they had incurred 33 or so losses at the hands of the F-14.

Interesting fighter, as it was a departure from Dassault's long line of pure delta winged aircraft. They suffered terribly at the hands of coalition F-15's in Desert Storm, including a Saudi pilot who downed two. Pilot (in)experience may have been a factor, as I've heard they pulled their best pilots out of F-1's and put them in the Mig-29. Didn't seem to make much of a difference..

Anyone flying against what America had put up though had to have some serious stones. A fully mature F-15, plentiful AWACS . much improved sparrows/sidewinders and the best training pilots could get (Israel might argue) proved to be a lethal combination..
Offline

milos984

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 14 Sep 2015, 10:39

Unread post20 Mar 2019, 19:30

mixelflick wrote:The Mirage F-1EQ was their most capable fighter...
Not as fast as MiG-25PD Foxbat´s and without its brute power of engines and radar.
Mirages F.1EQ´s started as Intercepotors and occasionnal recce-birds, but then evolved into multi-role or more specifically versatile strike platforms, so it´s pilots were not proficient enough in interceptor operators.
It can soud weird, but they were so sucesfull in long-range strikes agains value-targets, that they were not proficient enough in specific discipline of coordinated, GCI supported interceptions.
And IRIAF in 1988 was nothing like US-led coalition air armada.

mixelflick wrote:...Wiki states they claimed at least 35 Iranian aircraft, mostly F-4s and Northrop F-5s, but also several F-14 Tomcats. The latter had to be a huge feather in their caps, as they had incurred 33 or so losses at the hands of the F-14...
Certainly, IrAF Mirage pilots scored several wery important air victories. but truth is much complicated than simple numbers 35 vs. 33 or so.

The book is about that.

mixelflick wrote:...They suffered terribly at the hands of coalition F-15's in Desert Storm, including a Saudi pilot who downed two. Pilot (in)experience may have been a factor, as I've heard they pulled their best pilots out of F-1's and put them in the Mig-29. Didn't seem to make much of a difference...
As I weote it above, the USAF was completelly different adversary than exhausted IRIAF.
Certainly their pilots were anything but inexperienced, they accomulated quite a lot of expertise, but unfortunatelly against "wrong" enemy, enemy that was enormously exhausted, especially in 1987-88.

Most of the pilots of MiG-29 were MiG-21/23 drivers, captains and few junior lieutenants. And poor MiG-29´s were also designed by soviets to operate in totally different enviroment.

mixelflick wrote:Anyone flying against what America had put up though had to have some serious stones. A fully mature F-15, plentiful AWACS . much improved sparrows/sidewinders and the best training pilots could get (Israel might argue) proved to be a lethal combination..
What is winning todays was are not dogfights and super-maneuverability (as poor Russians believe today, with their super-turbo Su-57) but what is called a Situational awareness...
...You cant defeat your enemy whan you dont know where exactly he is. Its not important how super-turbo maneuvers is your Su-57 capable, because my AAM´s can pull more G´s anytime, simple as it is.

So when Iraqi KARI integrated air defense system collapsed, they were not able to sucesfully ambush US planes.
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4152
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post21 Mar 2019, 13:50

Milos 984 wrote..

Most of the pilots of MiG-29 were MiG-21/23 drivers, captains and few junior lieutenants. And poor MiG-29´s were also designed by soviets to operate in totally different enviroment.


I have to disagree with the latter statement. The Mig-29 was tailor made to point airfield defense, and that is precisely the role it (should have) played in Desert Storm. Unlike American F-15's which pushed into enemy territory to establish air superiority, the Mig-29 was designed to take off, meet the enemy over a close proximity airfield and fight them off. The SU-27 on the other hand was built to escort interdiction/strike aircraft far away from its airfield.

So the Mig-29 was well within its design parameters. The fact they performed so poorly can be attributed to better trained USAF pilots, superior aircraft and better technology. I'd say Iraqi pilots were competent, even battle hardened from the Iran-Iraq war. But the combination of poor pilot/radar/weapons system interface and American training and technology doomed it to failure.

With a competent pilot, the Mig-29 is a dangerous opponent. Evaluation of East German Mig-29's confirmed this, as the gave allied fighters fits when the opportunity arose to perform DACT. But in real combat, the Mig has a dismal record. In every conflict it has seen action, (Desert Storm, combat over Africa and Bosnia) it has been reduced to spare parts, teeth and eyeballs. It does hold a few air to air kills over Cuban cessna's, so it's got that going for it.

It didn't start this way. The crew at Mig were reportedly overjoyed at the NATO codename assigned to it, Fulcrum. Plenty were produced, and plenty were exported. They had their opportunities to shine, and were summarily trounced.

Now in the twilight of its career, you'd think the boys at Mikoyan are rather disappointed. Instead, they're pumping out a super Mig-29, the Mig-35.

Go figure...
Offline
User avatar

marsavian

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1723
  • Joined: 02 Feb 2018, 21:55

Unread post21 Mar 2019, 17:24

The Mig-35 works on the Mig-29 deficiencies like the radar/cockpit display/fuel load/smokey engines. It might never be leading 4th gen but it's priced cheaply and past combat performances may not be a totally reliable indicator of future ones. Think of it no more than as the new Mig-21. Russian allies will continue to buy them if they find the Flankers too expensive.
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4152
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post22 Mar 2019, 15:17

marsavian wrote:The Mig-35 works on the Mig-29 deficiencies like the radar/cockpit display/fuel load/smokey engines. It might never be leading 4th gen but it's priced cheaply and past combat performances may not be a totally reliable indicator of future ones. Think of it no more than as the new Mig-21. Russian allies will continue to buy them if they find the Flankers too expensive.


But that's not what's happening..

Egypt is buying the SU-35, so is China. Malaysia, Vietnam and Venezuala all bought Flankers too. So far the only entity with a firm buy is Russia, and its a token quantity at that. Mig really needs to do a lot better than up-rated Fulcrums, but I fail to see anything materializing. At this point, they need a real hail mary design, something to get them at least back in the same ballpark as Sukhoi. I realize they're both state owned, but Mig as a design bureau has to have some pride.

I would hope, anyway..
Offline

milos984

Newbie

Newbie

  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 14 Sep 2015, 10:39

Unread post23 Mar 2019, 16:36

I dont thing that I wrote it wrongly, maybe too short. But I must stress that the problem of MiG-29 was that it was designed and fine tuned to operate as a part of Soviet Military Machine - where individual parts are supporting each other. In Iraq it operate around KARI Integrated ADS - so until here, everithyng is OK.
But KARI was enough against occasional IRIAF raids here and there or agains something like repeat of IDF/AF operation Opera anti-Reactor raid. But it was certainly not made to withstand such "truckload of brick´s" that Coalition throw on it since from the "night 1".

mixelflick wrote:I have to disagree with the latter statement. The Mig-29 was tailor made to point airfield defense, and that is precisely the role it (should have) played in Desert Storm.
the Mig-29 was designed to take off, meet the enemy over a close proximity airfield and fight them off..
I dont say that you are wrong, but the problem is more complex.
As I wrote it above, even when you are doing "point defense" mission close your home airbase, you still need a GCI support to know where is your enemy and how to maneuver to get on enemy´s "sixth hour" and all that before he would be allarmed that you are there.

One small addenda: there was affair in 1986, when a designer of NIIR research center was arrested and later executed for threason by KGB. His name was Adoľf Toľkačev, and he passed a lot of sensitive informations to CIA. Also, some informations about MiG-29 were obtained from Germany and also French air force allowed USN Hornets to train against un-delivered "iraqi" Mirage F.1EQ-6 in late 1990.

mixelflick wrote:With a competent pilot, the Mig-29 is a dangerous opponent. Evaluation of East German Mig-29's confirmed this, as the gave allied fighters fits when the opportunity arose to perform DACT.
Here, in Slovakia our MiG-drivers like to tell (on specialised pages, or personally at various air fest´s) how the MiG-29 is maneuverable airplane and how much they "kick the a$$" of the allied aircrafts during various joint NATO trainings. During mentioned MACE exercize, which take part at Sliač AFB, they were able to "get" RAF Harrier´s (in 2007) or RNlAF F-16A (recently). But they "forget to say" that it happens in 1 vs. 1 dogfights. :D And at the end of the day, they admitt that the radar of their "Fulcrum" is certainly not the best.
Next

Return to Military Aircraft of the Cold War

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests