Hawker Hunter mission with Iraqi AF 1980

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oldiaf

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Unread post16 Sep 2015, 00:20

Squadron 6 Rasheed AB Baghdad
4 Hunters :
Major Waleed Yunis
Major Sabah Abdulqadir
Major Zuhair Abd Hason
Major Riadh Alrawi

Target Shah Abad AB
Because of the darkness ( aircraft took off before the first light and these Hunters lacked NV equipments ) .. No.3 and 4 couldn't catch up with No.1 and 2 and had to return to base .... So the mission was continued only with 2 aircrafts.
On reaching the target the 2 Aircrafts saw 4 F-4 Phantoms about to take off .. So they attacked these phantoms and destroyed them on the ground but the air defenses started to fire heavily and No.2 aircraft hit and the pilot had to eject ...Major Sabah Abdulqadir either killed on impact or he was killed by ground troops in revenge for the destroyed Phantoms and their dead pilots .. No.1 returned to base safely.
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oldiaf

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Unread post16 Sep 2015, 02:58

The details are a correction for previous post in which stated the Hunter was shut downed by F-4 while the fact they destroyed 4 F-4 Phantoms on the ground and the Hunter was hit by ground fire.
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35_aoa

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Unread post16 Sep 2015, 08:01

sounds like a pretty shitty flight lead. How about a quick 360 to get his -3 and -4 joined up?
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oldiaf

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Unread post16 Sep 2015, 10:43

35_aoa wrote:sounds like a pretty shitty flight lead. How about a quick 360 to get his -3 and -4 joined up?

Radio silence was necessary to avoid detection and it was dark, so no way he could know
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Unread post16 Sep 2015, 11:50

I am surprised that Iraqis used Hunters operationally in 1980, did they continue using them in later years?
Which Iranian air base is exactly this Shah-abad AFB?
Do you know if the Iranians confirm the destruction of 4 Phantoms on the ground by Hunters in 1980 ( when exactly?)
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Unread post16 Sep 2015, 12:28

nikolaos wrote:I am surprised that Iraqis used Hunters operationally in 1980, did they continue using them in later years?
Which Iranian air base is exactly this Shah-abad AFB?
Do you know if the Iranians confirm the destruction of 4 Phantoms on the ground by Hunters in 1980 ( when exactly?)

These questions should be answered by old.iraqi.air.force and tomcooper.
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35_aoa

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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 04:46

oldiaf wrote:
35_aoa wrote:sounds like a pretty shitty flight lead. How about a quick 360 to get his -3 and -4 joined up?

Radio silence was necessary to avoid detection and it was dark, so no way he could know


Fair enough
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oldiaf

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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 12:59

This squadron ( 6 ) was later equipped with MiG-29 in 1987 and relocated to Tq base ( Taqqadum/Tammuz ) ... In AlHabaniyah west of Baghdad .. The same base with MiG-25PDS / RB squadron 97
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old.iraqi.air.force

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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 14:07

oldiaf wrote:This squadron ( 6 ) was later equipped with MiG-29 in 1987 and relocated to Tq base ( Taqqadum/Tammuz ) ... In AlHabaniyah west of Baghdad .. The same base with MiG-25PDS / RB squadron 97

MiG-29 pilots selected from MIG-23ML/MF who scored kills during Iran war.
The MIG-25Rs and RBs had another squadron numbers, No.97 squadron belong to MIG-25PDS AlHabaniyah AB and No.96 belong to MIG-25PD Alqadisiya AB.
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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 16:40

old.iraqi.air.force wrote:
oldiaf wrote:This squadron ( 6 ) was later equipped with MiG-29 in 1987 and relocated to Tq base ( Taqqadum/Tammuz ) ... In AlHabaniyah west of Baghdad .. The same base with MiG-25PDS / RB squadron 97

MiG-29 pilots selected from MIG-23ML/MF who scored kills during Iran war.
The MIG-25Rs and RBs had another squadron numbers, No.97 squadron belong to MIG-25PDS AlHabaniyah AB and No.96 belong to MIG-25PD Alqadisiya AB.

87 Squadron I think for MiG-25R/RB but I am confused ... Why in DS Jan 19 91 the 2 MiG-25s were of R type but the pilots were from 97 Squadron ?? ....
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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 16:42

Squadron 39 in Alqadisiyah AB was originally equipped with MiG-23s .. MF and MS I think and these were shifted to OCU Squadron ( I don't remember which one ) to equip squadron 39 with MiG-29s ?
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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 19:17

nikolaos wrote:I am surprised that Iraqis used Hunters operationally in 1980, did they continue using them in later years?
Nope.

Which Iranian air base is exactly this Shah-abad AFB?
I've heard this story, years ago, and tried several times to find what Shahabad do they mean.

There is one in Lorestan (about 350km west of Baghdad), and another in Mazandaran Province (near the coast of the Caspian Sea). Both are so deep inside Iran, I doubt anybody within the IrAF would be as dumb as to send any Hunters there (indeed, Shahabad in Mazandaran is so far away from Iraq, no chance any Hunter could ever get there).

There is no 'air force base' close to either of Shahabads; there was never any, and there is never going to be any. Nearest would be TFB.4 (Dezful), about 150km south, or TFB.3 (Hamadan), about 170km north of Shahabad in Lorestan. At most, south of Shahabad in Lorestan there is a stretch of highway that was designated as 'potential dispersal site' by pre-war Iranian plans.

If it was 'that' Shahabad in Lorestan, only heaven only knows what were Iraqi Hunters searching for there. There were not even any Iranian military units in that area - and it's 100% sure that no Phantoms were lost.

That said: I'm anything but certain that any Iranian F-4 Phantoms were involved. They were primarily reserved for ground attacks at that stage of the war, and only seldom flying CAPs. Similarly, F-5Es from TFB.4 were busy blasting the Iraqi army in Khuzestan around that time (especially so since all the Iranian Army could put in front of 3 Iraqi divisions advancing on their base in Dezful, was a 'Task Force' consisting of less than a dozen of M60s and M113s...).

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if IrAF No.2 was actually knocked down by one of F-14s that were usually on CAP station further south (not that Iraqis would've ever known: their Hunters had no RWRs, just for the start...).
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!
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oldiaf

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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 19:33

tomcooper wrote:
nikolaos wrote:I am surprised that Iraqis used Hunters operationally in 1980, did they continue using them in later years?
Nope.

Which Iranian air base is exactly this Shah-abad AFB?
I've heard this story, years ago, and tried several times to find what Shahabad do they mean.

There is one in Lorestan (about 350km west of Baghdad), and another in Mazandaran Province (near the coast of the Caspian Sea). Both are so deep inside Iran, I doubt anybody within the IrAF would be as dumb as to send any Hunters there (indeed, Shahabad in Mazandaran is so far away from Iraq, no chance any Hunter could ever get there).

There is no 'air force base' close to either of Shahabads; there was never any, and there is never going to be any. Nearest would be TFB.4 (Dezful), about 150km south, or TFB.3 (Hamadan), about 170km north of Shahabad in Lorestan. At most, south of Shahabad in Lorestan there is a stretch of highway that was designated as 'potential dispersal site' by pre-war Iranian plans.

If it was 'that' Shahabad in Lorestan, only heaven only knows what were Iraqi Hunters searching for there. There were not even any Iranian military units in that area - and it's 100% sure that no Phantoms were lost.

That said: I'm anything but certain that any Iranian F-4 Phantoms were involved. They were primarily reserved for ground attacks at that stage of the war, and only seldom flying CAPs. Similarly, F-5Es from TFB.4 were busy blasting the Iraqi army in Khuzestan around that time (especially so since all the Iranian Army could put in front of 3 Iraqi divisions advancing on their base in Dezful, was a 'Task Force' consisting of less than a dozen of M60s and M113s...).

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if IrAF No.2 was actually knocked down by one of F-14s that were usually on CAP station further south (not that Iraqis would've ever known: their Hunters had no RWRs, just for the start...).

The original report mentioned Shahabad Airport not base ... The F-4 Phantoms were on ground not on CAP according to the report.
The airport Shahabad highway strip ??
Last edited by oldiaf on 17 Sep 2015, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 19:36

One of the Iraqi refugess I met in Belgium few months ago was an Iraqi medic with the Iraqi army at that time ... He told me He played Football in Dezful back in early 80s !!
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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 21:24

oldiaf wrote:The original report mentioned Shahabad Airport not base ...
I guess you know about 'Google Earth': please, show me anything 'airfield-alike' near Shahabad in Lorestan.

Anything but that highway.

The F-4 Phantoms were on ground not on CAP according to the report.
Where? Where should they have been 'on the ground'?

I have a strong feeling, you guys simply have no trace of clue about the condition of Iranian military as of September 1980; especially no clue under what condition was the IRIAF 'functioning' at the time.

If you would have any clue, you would know that what you're talking about here, what you 'demand' (kind of), was impossible.

If these were F-4 Phantoms, then from TFB.3. And that was one of IRIAF air bases that felt the worst impacts of the post-revolutionary chaos. Its CO, Col Golchin (mind: a Colonel was normally supposed to command a squadron, but surely not a full 'Tactical Fighter Base' with several thousands of officers and other ranks), was happy if he could find enough ground crews and pilots to man his aircraft.

First of all, think logically: let's say he would have decided to 'disperse' his aircraft and crews. Why do so, after initial Iraqi air strikes on Shahroki have clearly shown that these are at safest in their hardened aircraft shelters? And why do so, if this would only increase his problems with maintaining and operating his aircraft?

At TFB.3, he at least had stocks of ammo and spares on hand, and the same ground crew could take care of 2-3 aircraft. That made the maintenance a very slow process (and thus had a major impact on turn-around times), but at least this was possible.

If he would have sent any aircraft to, say, some kind of 'dispersal strip' near Shahabad, he would have to send gound crews, pilots, ammo, fuel, spares, and ground equipment there - all of which were precious and best-protected right where they already were, at TFB.3.

Plus, he would have to organize housing for personnel, guards and air defences for such a facility too. That all was simply out of his abilities - because Iranian military was in a complete chaos, because of lack of personnel, and because people were refusing to listen to 'Shah's pilots' (meaning 'any officer').

Even the MIM-23B I-HAWK and Rapier sites supposed to defend TFB.3 were inoperational - for lack of personnel (caused not only by post-revolutionary chaos, but also the famous Nojeh Coup attempt, of which the TFB.3 was centrepiece, and after which hundreds of IRIAF officers were arrested). There was lack of kerosene because some of Iraqi bombs (by sheer accident) have hit some of fuel depots etc...

Golchin had his hands full with his NCOs ('Homafars') too: they were protesting for all possible (and usually nonsensical) reasons. Several times they blocked the base for days. Say, even if he managed to issue such an order, what do you think would have happened if he sent them to 'camp in wilderness'...?

And on top of that he was frequently out of contact to the HQ at Dowshan Tappeh, but had to run 'normal' combat operations against Iraq, as ordered by Tehran, plus help save TFB.4 from the threat of those three Iraqi divisions advancing on Dezful...

Come on...

One of the Iraqi refugess I met in Belgium few months ago was an Iraqi medic with the Iraqi army at that time ... He told me He played Football in Dezful back in early 80s !!
In Dezful? Surely not. Iraqis never reached Dezful. The furthest they came was a radar station about 15km west of that town.
F-Arba-Ashara!! Yalla, yalla!!
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